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Service DEF System - ENGINE WILL NOT RESTART!

170K views 145 replies 41 participants last post by  Kandrews 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey everyone,

I just bought a 2015 1500 Eco Diesel and am getting repeated check engine lights. Our fourth in less than 6000kms:
- needed software update
- service DEF system
- was told there was "water in a sensor under the hood" - it hadn't been washed, it hadn't rained, or been off-road...
- another service DEF system service required "engine will not restart in 300kms"

Pretty scary stuff for a new RAM owner. Anyone else having these issues?
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#42 · (Edited by Moderator)
SH*T... I should have stayed out of this discussion. On the way to lunch this afternoon I heard a ding and the CEL came on. I pulled the DTC P20EE from my phone app. 5033 miles...

The worst possible turn can not be programmed. It is caused by coincidence.
- Friedrich Durrenmatt
 
#43 ·
SH*T..... I should have stayed out of this discussion. On the way to lunch this afternoon I heard a ding and the CEL came on. I pulled the DTC P20EE from my phone app. 5033 miles....

The worst possible turn can not be programmed. It is caused by coincidence.
- Friedrich Durrenmatt
No message yet regarding "x miles to no start", just CEL.
 
#45 ·
Gene the one thing that I've noticed with your post is you only have 5033 miles , usually everyone else got lucky between 12000- 20000 miles I'm wondering if it is degrading metals of the scr with time and cheap insides not so much mileage now , with in reason not saying one would go bad not driving at all ,but being exposed to the def fluid + time = P20EE , I really didn't think you would get the code this soon based on your driving habits.

Well it really doesn't matter now Welcome to the P20EE club I'm happy you decided to join us !!!:eek:
 
#49 ·
Originally is was a CEL and the P20EE code if I remember correctly. Then I got a message in the EVIC a couple of weeks later that it had incorrect DEF and to see the dealer. I drove the truck a couple of more days then got a message stating the truck will not restart in 200 miles. That was 12/3/15. It has been at the dealer since 12/8/2015 for recall items and this DEF issue. My original service date was for next week for all of the warranty work however the DEF restart issue took precedence.
 
#50 ·
Here is the latest news on my P20EE indisposition, some good and some bad.

The good news:
I called the dealer to get an appointment. I told the service manager who I was and that I needed an appointment to bring the truck in for the P20EE code. He said that he remembered me from the last time that I brought the truck in for a recall. I said that I was surprised that he remembered me and he replied that he did because I was so informed about the truck. I explained that the reason for that was because I had the counsel of a 7,000 member strong forum. I think that I heard a moan in the background... But, he quickly composed himself and said that it was not necessary for me to bring the truck in and that he was going to order an SCR and call me when it arrived.

The bad news:
I dared to ask how long it would be before they had the SCR. He had to call me back and said that he checked the local dealers and none were to be found. He then called Chrysler and they told him that SCRs are on back order and that they won't give a delivery date until they processed his order. That will take several days, so I won't get the alleged delivery date until possibly next week. I was advised to just keep driving and that the truck will not go into limp mode.

I was very pleased to not have to take the truck in and that they would just order the SCR on my claim that I have the DTC P20EE. To be continued.....
 
#51 ·
If it makes you feel any better, I drove mine for a few thousand miles with a piece of black tape covering the CEL so it would not annoy me.

No issues with operation and no shutdown issue.

ACR system came in and they changed it all out with no drama.
 
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#53 ·
My 2014 Ram 1500 ECO Diesel has 44.000 miles on it and has been great. I now have a def signal that engine will shut off in 130 miles. I took it to the dealer and they have had the truck for a week.I was called yesterday and told that the DEF sensor inside the tank had failed ( stuck) and would not send a signal to the computer telling it that there is fluid in the tank.Therefore they will have to put a new DEF tank on the truck because you cannot service the pump in the tank. This is at the cost of $ 2700.00. The extended warranty that they sold me does not cover any of the emission issues. I was just wondering if anyone has had this issue.
 
#60 ·
Here is part of an email that I received from the EPA in response to emission system warranty.

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the federal emissions warranty. The Clean Air Act requires manufactures of light duty vehicles to warranty the emissions control system performance for 2 years or
24,000 miles and 8 years or 80,000 miles for specified major emissions control components which are: 1) the catalytic converter, 2) the electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU), and 3) the onboard emissions diagnostic (OBD) device or computer. Additionally, manufactures are required to warranty any emission control or emission related component that fails to function or functions improperly because of a defect in materials or workmanship for 2 years or 24,000 miles (8 years or 80,000 miles for specified major emissions control components) under the emissions defect warranty.

The following web page provides more information regarding the federal emissions warranty requirements: www.epa.gov/obd/pubs/420f09048.pdf

Vehicle technology is constantly changing; therefore there may be emissions control components or emissions related components which do not appear on this list. The 2 years/24,000 mile federal emissions warranty still applies to these components. A more complete list can be found in your owner's manual/warranty booklet. The specified major emissions control components are specified in the Clean Air Act as: 1) the catalytic converter, 2) the electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU), and 3) the onboard emissions diagnostic (OBD) device or computer. The diesel SCR catalytic converter, Diesel oxidation converter, and the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) are considered catalytic converters covered under the 8
year/80,000 mile warranty, however, the other components in the SCR system (e.g. exhaust sensors, DEF tank, valves, hoses, etc) are covered under the 2 year/24,000 mile warranties mentioned above.

I hope this information is helpful,

Joel Ball
Light-Duty Vehicle Group
Compliance Division
United States Environmental Protection Agency ball.joel@epa.gov
However, the bumper to bumper warranty extends the DEF tank, etc. to 36K miles or 36 months.
 
#54 ·
$2700 for a DEF tank and pump/sensor?!! I can't believe the pump/sensor isn't removable and or can't be bought separate from the tank?!

What kind of dealership were you at? Does their dress code include a ski mask and a side arm pointed at you?
 
#56 ·
Tomorrow will make 14 days for this issue in addition to the 9 days it was at the dealer for the scr parts at the beginning of November. Diesel tech is at a loss. Has run many diagnostics and test drives per the STAR group and case. The truck still goes into def nonrestart mode due to DEF issue. I've opened a case with Chrysler.
 
#57 ·
I am going to request the tank be given to me so I can cut it up and inspect the sensor and float . I have heard of the sensor salting over and not sending the signal. I am at a loss because I do not have any knowledge of the system so I am at the mercy of the dealership.I asked the dealer how often this might happen because at 2700.00 a pop I cannot stand much. Like Shaker223 I do not want to get it back just to have this problem happen again. I cannot believe the warranty does not cover any of the emission issues. But I trusted the dealer on the warranty covering bumper to bumper and did not look at it myself. No one to blame but me...Well going to dealer today and see what is happening and what they have checked. Maybe more information later. Thank everyone for your input..
 
#58 ·
That sounds bad, do not trust the dealer, I had one try to tell me I had to pay for emissions repairs when I lived in California, however Ca law required that emissions are covered for I think it was 100000 miles the service manager was pretty surprised I knew this.

So what I am saying in short if you have not done so review your primary and secondary vehicle warranties as well as local laws on such matters. Hopefully you will find something that will make them have to cover it, as well it is possible that the salesman's statement may be considered a verbal contract in court.


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#59 ·
Well going over the warranty info there seems to be a point of interpretation, Fed law requires repair to meet Passing of Federal emissions up 80000 miles, since the EcoDiesel cannot pass an emission test without the DEF system operational, would this not be covered?

I think if you push the issue you will get it covered.
Time to put on your arguing pants.


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#63 ·
Yes, but the DEF pump is available separately for $212.40, so not too bad. He needs to go to an ethical dealer and tell this one where to go....
 
#65 ·
So I'm having a very similar issue, my truck has been at the Dodge Dealer for 13 days, they have changed the SCR, and a sensor in the DEF tank. The "Engine will not Restart" display is still on after 9 test drives and multiple fixes they had received from Chrysler Tech, and last night they called to tell me I could come get my truck. The Service Clerk told me they cant get the light to go off. Told me to drive the Truck with the Display on and "IF" it shuts down to have it towed back or to another Chrysler Dealerhip. What is this insanity, is this issue truly unrepairable?
 
#66 ·
You could kindly suggest to them that they are not only incompetent, but obscenely stupid to assume liability for any accident that may be caused by the truck shutting down in the middle of a freeway, for example. You could also tell them that you are invoking lemon law and to call you should they get lucky and fix it before they have to buy it back.
 
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#68 ·
Understood.... I have already prepared myself to ditch my truck, should I have an experience like yours. I love my truck too, but I also depend on it to be reliable and at my disposal 99% of the time. Some will argue that I'm expecting too much, but I base this upon the reliability of my other two diesel trucks. If the new breed of diesel emission systems are too complicated to be reliable, then I see a gasser in my future. I would rather pay for gas than have an unreliable truck.
 
#74 ·
Update from Dealer! Service Manager actually said I should just take the truck up front and trade it in! They cant not fix the problem, the "Engine Will Not Restart" display will not go off. I have called Chrysler and they have moved this up to a Case manager. Presently waiting on the case manager to call me with an update.
 
#77 ·
I opened a case with Chrysler however I have not opened a formal case yet as I have not met the full criteria under the Michigan Lemon Law. I was told last week that legal would be contacting me in two days and that was up yesterday. Chrysler will be going on the holiday shutdown after today so I'm not sure what support is like for STAR and other organizations. That will just help my case down the road if nothing is resolved.
 
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