Ecodiesel EPA Scandal - Page 2

Ecodiesel EPA Scandal

This is a discussion on Ecodiesel EPA Scandal within the RAM 1500 Diesel General Discussion forums, part of the RAM 1500 EcoDiesel Forum category; Originally Posted by Ransom Nope - lying is telling an untruth - failure to disclose is keeping your mouth shut. FCA says they checked all ...

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Thread: Ecodiesel EPA Scandal

  1. #11
    MAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
    Nope - lying is telling an untruth - failure to disclose is keeping your mouth shut.

    FCA says they checked all the right boxes and their AECD are permitted by the regulations, EPA is saying we don't think so. Again, hardly a scandal.
    Do you have in writing where FCA claims they are innocent of all and that they followed the law and regulations to a "T"?

  2. #12
    RAM Sr Member blaster668's Avatar
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    The EPA's Notice of Violation to FCA stated that if FCA could not come up with acceptable reasoning as to why the AECDs should be permitted, that they would be deemed Defeat Devices. At the time of the NOV, they stated FCA had been given several opportunities to justify the AECDs, and failed to do so. With this information and the long elapsed time since, I don't think it is a stretch at all to say that FCA intentionally cheated, in fact I'm about 90% certain that they did. Of course, that other 10% chance may come true, but my money, and I think it's the safe bet at this time, is on them being charged with implementing defeat devices.
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    Supporting Vendor CoolTech's Avatar
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    Wow.... still continues to be a lot of mis-information - despite many factual documents have been released. Did FCA cheat? Absolutely. In an era of self-certification (which more or less ended with flagrant abuse by VW), manufacturers were REQUIRED to disclose all AECDs. Period. FCA didn't. And FCA had some whoppers - perhaps the biggest of which was turning off the EGR cycle completely during high-speed cruise. (FCA claims that have resolved this one with a flash.) The spirit of the rules are that the OEMs are given emissions standards that they must comply with. However, the EPA recogognizes that there may be scenarios where the vehicle may step out of compliance - and they are willing to consider those. As such, for certification you are to submit the results of your testing AND to document any/all cases of non-compliance (AECDs). FCA failed to disclose the AECDs. This is cheating. A scandal? Yes. As flagrant as VW's "hey, lets have a compliant mode when we know we are in a test scenario"? No.... but cheating nonetheless.
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  5. #14
    RAM Sr Member Kyler's Avatar
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    there are a few videos on YT like this where the trucks were tested the old fashioned way (with sniffers) and passed with flying colors. There is no smoking gun and in my mind they shouldn't have been questioned.

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    RAM Sr Member Ursle's Avatar
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    The only scandal on this issue is trying to convince others it didn't happen, it's similar to the people denying that the defeat devices (GDE) being sold on the forum aren't detectable by FCA, and thereby convincing the unwary of alternate facts.

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    RAM Platinum Member Captainmal's Avatar
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    Since it's particulate testing it is good to know that the DPF system is working well. Now that's if you are really into environmental protection of that issue. Then, of course, you should be out there truing to nab those "rolling coal" where it's obvious there's a problem.

    Viewed this earlier this year. Remember the entire issue of not being reasonable to measure NO emissions at speed and/or under tow.
    Use your head or my may have to use your feet.

  8. #17
    RAM Professional Rhombus99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhramecod View Post
    Sorry for my choice of words, but they cam out with this in January and that's what it sounded like to me. They have been pretty quiet about it ever since. Being a Ram Ecodiesel owner myself, I'm concerned. Don't understand why you're so sensitive.
    Keep in my "They" were litigation attorneys and others making this "scandal" claims. No evidence of an actual scandal has been produced, just many people assumed this was VW all over again.
    jsintx and MR. TED like this.

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    RAM Regular msp548's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhombus99 View Post
    Keep in my "They" were litigation attorneys and others making this "scandal" claims. No evidence of an actual scandal has been produced, just many people assumed this was VW all over again.
    No evidence has been produced because it hasn't gone to court yet. The EPA doesn't use the media as an information disseminator regarding investigations.

    The fact that Ram has been unable to sell the X number of 2017 Eco's produced because of the EPA hold is enough evidence for me.

  10. #19
    RAM Wizard Perrysburg Dodgeboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAS View Post
    Well nobody will give us any info to go off of so all we can do is speculate. But there was a news article posted a while back that said Bosch admitted to working on software for ram intended to defeat emissions or am I making that up? I'm almost certain I read that somewhere. Ram F'd up if you cant admit that its time to put your head back in the sand.
    I never heard that one before, it has been reported that they had a roll in the VW scandal though. "Bosch acknowledged shortly after the scandal broke that it supplied a component – known as electronic diesel control unit 17 – that VW used so its vehicles could cheat in laboratory tests." https://www.ft.com/content/964a2f72-...b-c88452263daf

    Can't find anything like that for the FCA/Ram Ecodiesel though.
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    As a Police Officer , I could arrest someone based on probable cause. It did not require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that was up to a jury to decide. Probable Cause means I had a good reason to believe that this person committed a crime. I handcuffed them , put them in a cell, took them in front of a judge who would require some sort of bail etc.

    But I never convicted anybody , that was up to a court of jurisdiction to decide based on the evidence that is presented. Government agencies have similar authority to do this sort of thing to a company , much less an individual. It is not a finding of quilt or even an indication of guilt, it is simply one side of the story. To trea FCA fairly ( as any if us would demand and expect) , I will remain in a neutral corner.

    Many in our government are ultra-liberal and hyper environmentally conscious. I am not for tearing up the environment but my future trip to Florida won't be on horseback either.
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