Ecodiesel EPA Scandal - Page 3

Ecodiesel EPA Scandal

This is a discussion on Ecodiesel EPA Scandal within the RAM 1500 Diesel General Discussion forums, part of the RAM 1500 EcoDiesel Forum category; Here is the full "Notice of Violation" papers. Read it for yourself... They FCA was approached and asked about their software devices back in 2014. ...

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  1. #21
    RAM Professor Icanfixit's Avatar
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    Here is the full "Notice of Violation" papers. Read it for yourself...

    They FCA was approached and asked about their software devices back in 2014. They attempted to work with the EPA up until Dec, 2016 for some type of solution, fix, and full explanation of their software. FCA did present and roll out a "field fix" in 2015recall we know of that one SCR replacement and it's controller software flash that reduced our fuel to mileage numbers. This flash stoped EGR from shutting off at highway speeds, ambient temperature, and timers built into their software.

    VW turned their cheat software on during testing, FCA turned theirs off later after testing at highway speeds! No real difference.... NOx levels still reached 10x the allowed legal limit required for certification of their product!


    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1159.png
    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1160.png
    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1161.png
    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1162.png
    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1163.png
    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1164.png
    Ecodiesel EPA Scandal-img_1165.png


    There's enough disclosure in the "Notice of Violation" papers of what FCA was doing with their software. Bosch has the keys into the controler, Bosch wrote their software to be proprietary, only they have the keys into the software code. They FCA had to have known what was going on during their testing with Bosch engineers.
    Last edited by Icanfixit; 05-14-2017 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Update Grammar
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  2. #22
    RAM Platinum Member Captainmal's Avatar
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    Thanks for reproducing these here. First time, i guess, anyone here saw anything like this. Wondering why these were not made public earlier and if they were, not displayed.

    Reads like 8 operating conditions were not tested by the EPA at original approval. Now, maybe because the EPA changed their testing, these operating conditions are now being tested. So today, under what I guess is new testing procedures, the Ecodiesel is not approved.

    Well it was approved back at the start. It passed their testing procedures. Kind of like a 1972 car, you don't go back and say it's not approved for sale today so it's banned for use today and those that made them are retroactively fined.

    I would think that FCA now should decide to meet the testing requirements or stop selling the vehicles. They did stop selling the vehicles. Unless made to current testing parameters, that should be the end of the issue.
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  3. #23
    RAM Rookie Squirrelchaser's Avatar
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    I agree with you Captainmal. It's like when the IIHS crash tests a car and gives it a 5 star rating. Then the next year they change testing procedures and the same car fails miserably. Not a fault for the car, just an adjustment of the testing procedures and thresholds.

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  5. #24
    Administrator 97hmcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icanfixit View Post
    Here is the full "Notice of Violation" papers. Read it for yourself...

    They FCA was approached and asked about their software devices back in 2014. They attempted to work with the EPA up until Dec, 2016 for some type of solution, fix, and full explanation of their software. FCA did present and roll out a "field fix" in 2015recall we know of that one SCR replacement and it's controller software flash that reduced our fuel to mileage numbers. This flash stoped EGR from shutting off at highway speeds, ambient temperature, and timers built into their software.

    VW turned their cheat software on during testing, FCA turned theirs off later after testing at highway speeds! No real difference.... NOx levels still reached 10x the allowed legal limit required for certification of their product!



    There's enough disclosure in the "Notice of Violation" papers of what FCA was doing with their software. Bosch has the keys into the controler, Bosch wrote their software to be proprietary, only they have the keys into the software code. They FCA had to have known what was going on during their testing with Bosch engineers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captainmal View Post
    Thanks for reproducing these here. First time, i guess, anyone here saw anything like this. Wondering why these were not made public earlier and if they were, not displayed.

    Reads like 8 operating conditions were not tested by the EPA at original approval. Now, maybe because the EPA changed their testing, these operating conditions are now being tested. So today, under what I guess is new testing procedures, the Ecodiesel is not approved.

    Well it was approved back at the start. It passed their testing procedures. Kind of like a 1972 car, you don't go back and say it's not approved for sale today so it's banned for use today and those that made them are retroactively fined.

    I would think that FCA now should decide to meet the testing requirements or stop selling the vehicles. They did stop selling the vehicles. Unless made to current testing parameters, that should be the end of the issue.

    Old news guys.... You weren't paying attention 4 months ago.

    This was posted by Raptorguy on 01-13-2017: Looks like the EPA is accusing FCA of cheating on the Ecodiesel / VW Scandal Thread
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    RAM Regular msp548's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captainmal View Post
    Thanks for reproducing these here. First time, i guess, anyone here saw anything like this. Wondering why these were not made public earlier and if they were, not displayed.

    Reads like 8 operating conditions were not tested by the EPA at original approval. Now, maybe because the EPA changed their testing, these operating conditions are now being tested. So today, under what I guess is new testing procedures, the Ecodiesel is not approved.

    Well it was approved back at the start. It passed their testing procedures. Kind of like a 1972 car, you don't go back and say it's not approved for sale today so it's banned for use today and those that made them are retroactively fined.

    I would think that FCA now should decide to meet the testing requirements or stop selling the vehicles. They did stop selling the vehicles. Unless made to current testing parameters, that should be the end of the issue.
    The laws and regulations weren't changed, the technology to monitor compliance was. That's perfectly acceptable in my book.

    Should we not arrest cold case murderers identified through DNA if DNA testing was not available at the time of the crime?
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    RAM Regular jsintx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msp548 View Post
    The laws and regulations weren't changed, the technology to monitor compliance was. That's perfectly acceptable in my book.

    Should we not arrest cold case murderers identified through DNA if DNA testing was not available at the time of the crime?
    Did you just equate this allegation to murder? Wow, I think you need to step away from this for a bit of perspective.

  8. #27
    RAM Regular msp548's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsintx View Post
    Did you just equate this allegation to murder? Wow, I think you need to step away from this for a bit of perspective.
    Your rediculous comment doesn't even warrant a response.

  9. #28
    RAM Sr Member Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msp548 View Post
    The laws and regulations weren't changed, the technology to monitor compliance was. That's perfectly acceptable in my book.

    Should we not arrest cold case murderers identified through DNA if DNA testing was not available at the time of the crime?
    No the technology did not change. The ED passes the current EPA testing protical, it fails when tested under some real world driving conditions not part if the EPA test.
    Situation is not like your DNA reference where the science has advanced but more like the State saying we're pulling your diploma even though you meet all requirements to graduate because we've learned that you don't understand finances so adding an econ requirement you need to pass to get back your diploma
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    RAM Guru shaggn85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
    No the technology did not change. The ED passes the current EPA testing protical, it fails when tested under some real world driving conditions not part if the EPA test.
    Situation is not like your DNA reference where the science has advanced but more like the State saying we're pulling your diploma even though you meet all requirements to graduate because we've learned that you don't understand finances so adding an econ requirement you need to pass to get back your diploma
    100%. this. EPA is seriously butthurt because VW made them look like total morons.

    i think any flash the keeps those functions active will end up bei g sufficient. if epa pushes the issue in court they will lose.

    judge will not likely be sympathetic to the epa in this case.
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  11. #30
    RAM Regular msp548's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
    No the technology did not change. The ED passes the current EPA testing protical, it fails when tested under some real world driving conditions not part if the EPA test.
    Situation is not like your DNA reference where the science has advanced but more like the State saying we're pulling your diploma even though you meet all requirements to graduate because we've learned that you don't understand finances so adding an econ requirement you need to pass to get back your diploma
    "EPA Testing Protocal"????????

    The EPA can adjust its "testing protocal" at will to monitor compliance with existing law. What they can't do is change the law. Only the lawmakers can do that.

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