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Asphaltene ruined my fuel injectors? WTF

20K views 72 replies 31 participants last post by  biodiesel 
#1 ·
I am a new victim of the “service electronic throttle control” code P0299 underboost.
2014 Laramie 33000 miles
Dealer: we need to replace all 6 injectors
Me: why
Dealer: thats what service bulletin says to do.
Me: why. I don't want you to start throwing parts at the problem until you thoroughly troublshoot the issue.
Dealer: We did that. Checked out the hoses, pressure tested, blah, blah, blah.
Me: Why all of a sudden do injectors go bad on essentially a brand new truck?
Dealer: Its not brand new.
Me: Its 3 years old...Its practically brand new. This is BS.
Dealer: Its covered under warrantee.
Me: I don't care. Is this what I have to look forward to?

Now the truth comes out.
Dealer: Chrysler thinks Asphaltene in the diesel fuel is clogging the fuel filter and getting into the injectors and causing failures.
Me: What the hell is Asphaltene?
Dealer: We don't know. Maybe an addative.
Dealer: Thats why Chrysler now recommends oil change at 7500 miles max and fuel filter change every other oil change.
Me: so how I have to spend 200 bucks every 7500 miles instead of 15000 miles? Thats not what the book and evic says.
Me: How the hell is the customer supposed to know that?
Dealer: We are supposed to tell the customer.
Me: B.S. No one told me that. And Chrysler has not notified customers. I don't believe you.

So now they make a copy of the STAR Case from Chrysler and show it to me, but won't let me have it. It pretty much confirms what dealer said and said Chrysler is investigating the issue. Apparently there have been so many of these that fuel injector failures they are on BACK ORDER.
Wow, what a load of crap.
They are my servicing dealer, but not the dealer I purchased from.
How can I press them for a loaner? I wonder how long my truck will be waiting for freakin' parts.

Any advice, friends?
 
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#3 ·
I read this elsewhere and it seems to make sense.

"During normal operation, the pores in the media of the fuel fuel filter become clogged with the omnipresent asphaltenes. As more pores become clogged, the fuel has less and less usable media through which to flow. Restricted flow increases fuel flow velocity. Now remember that the fuel filter doubles as the water separator. Normally, the tiny particles of dissolved water present in the fuel are too large to pass through the filter. They coalesce on the surface of the filter and run down to the bottom of the can where the water-in-fuel sensor resides. However, if the asphaltenes have plugged enough of the pores in the filter, resulting in a higher fuel flow velocity across the filter, those same water particles can stick to the filter media. If they stay there long enough, the filter media swell creating, one by one, larger pores that will now allow the water particles – we could call them injector assassins now – to pass through. What happens next? You guessed it: fuel injector homicide"
 
#15 ·
I am far from a filter expert but this explanation sounds a bit far fetched to me. Seems to me the filter is just a wide spot in the fuel line so the flow velocity in the can slows down considerably and gravity does its job and the water settles out in the bottom of the can. When I cut my fuel filter apart is was black from asphaltene but there was no sign of water anywhere in the numerous cross sectional cuts I made in te filter and the unwinding of the media. I don't think the elment is like one of the aircraft fueling elements that fully shuts off the flow when it is overwhelmed with water. Anyhow, my opinion only. I am due for my second 30,000 mile change shortly and wil cut the element apart and see if it looks any different than the first one.The problem with fuel filters is good fuel and they go forever witness DaveF and his 100,000+ on the original filter and get a really bad tank of fuel and they are overwhelmed immediately regardless of miles on the filter.

IT would be interesting to see if the filter media itself absorbs water but I don't want to sacrifice a new filter to see if it does.
 
#5 ·
Heat exchanger fouling
Asphaltenes are known to be one of the largest causes of fouling in the heat exchangers of the crude oil distillation preheat train. They are present within micelles in crude oil, which can be broken down by reaction with paraffins under high temperature. Once the protective micelle has been removed polar asphaltenes agglomerate and are transported to the tube walls, where they can stick and form a foulant layer.

Asphaltene removal[edit]
Chemical treatments for removing asphaltene include:

solvents
dispersants/solvents
oil/dispersants/solvents
The dispersant/solvent approach is used for removing asphaltenes from formation minerals. Continuous treating may be required to inhibit asphaltene deposition in the tubing. Batch treatments are common for dehydration equipment and tank bottoms. There are also asphaltene precipitation inhibitors that can be used by continuous treatment or squeeze treatments.[13]


They are larger molecules and do cause fouling. Composition varies so it's a generic term for many large molecules from crude. Doubt there's much anyone can do about them. Strange you get stuck having trouble because of them. Not sure the topic has come up before and it it did, it's a rare problem.
 
#7 ·
I don't believe that we have heard about any significant number of injector failures as a result of bad fuel. The ones that I remember were due to failing HPFPs fouling the injectors with metal paritcles.
 
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#8 ·
This is what 6th edition diesel supplement shows...


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#10 ·
How many of you have gotten updated supplements of any kind in the mail from FCA?

Yeah, me neither. Apparently once a month it is our job as owners to scour the internet to see what changes have been made to our maintenance schedule.

We are the FCA guinnea pigs. This truck still is not market ready from a reliability standpoint.
 
#13 ·
I have never received an update from any manufacture, that's 3 motorcycle brands, 1 truck brands and 3 auto brands. Why should this truck be different.

At 60,000 trouble free miles in 17 months I disagree.
 
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#12 ·
I pull mine from mopar.com/ ramtrucks

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#14 ·
well I had the same code a couple weeks ago. TRuck went into a limp/low performance mode and basically used no turbo boost. Went to the dealer and he cleaned what they called the boost sensor and all was well. Said they weren't sure how long the cleaning would last and since I had the extended warranty said they recommended replacing the sensor and the whole shebang would cost me the $100 deductible. SO I did that. Somewhere on this site are one or two strings about cleaning some sensors and I expect that was what I needed to do. Happened at about 56,000 miles and I have never had an announced regen.
 
#17 ·
Welcome to the Forum,

Not sure if you are a one and done person who wanted to vent, I do have a few questions. 1st, being a son of a sparky, I notice by your call sign that you are pretty local. What dealer do you use? How big of a dealership are they?? They seem pretty incompetent not knowing what asphaltene is. Also, up to this point, have your changed your fuel filter?
 
#34 ·
choochooman74:
Nope, not venting and not "one and done". Been reading the forum for a couple of years, just no reason to chime in, Not venting just sharing an experience. I do not believe what the dealer is telling me. But who am I to argue with the "experts", thats why I was looking for opinions here. They claim their diesel guy is expert certified and all that. I admit I have not changed the fuel filter. At 33000 miles it would be slightly overdue if I go by the book (15000 mile oil change, filter every other time) Believe me when I say I will shorten the interval in the future. Also I get my fuel at a "high volume Sunoco station.

The other thing they are saying is that New England is considered "severe duty" and I should be changing the oil at 3000-5000 miles (7500 max) Really? I get my service at Salvadore in Gardner, Mass. They are 5 miles away. I did not purchase from them, which they were quite willing to point out to me. Maybe I should find a more competent servicing dealer. We'll see how this one goes.

One last thing though---I did purchase the top level factory extended warrantee for exactly a situation like this. Another 3000 miles / 2 months and I'd probably be looking at a several thousand dollar bill. So far this truck has been absolutely flawless.....I love my truck.
 
#21 ·
That update issue is valid.

Without this forum all the oil changes, flashing and news would not exist. FCA literally does nothing with their owners' list except to offer solicitations to buy more for $500 off.

I agree with those bringing that up. Good.
 
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#22 · (Edited)
This is only Diesel I've seen without a water sensor on the bottom of fuel filter housing. How ever it's suppose to work, I'm not sure .... On our forum you see more fuel injector issues than water in fuel warnings, if any warnings?

As far as asphaltene causing injector issues, doubt it ,most likely water getting pushed through the fuel filter . The ED has 85psi of fuel pressure and I would guess that's plenty of pressure to compromise the integrity of the fuel filters ability of repelling water , much less emulsified water in fuel .

It's very important to always get your fuel receipt, This way if you ever get a bad batch of fuel , YOU HAVE A PROOF OF YOUR PURCHASE......

And never purchase fuel when you see a tanker dumping, it stirs up the crap in the holding tank . Drive on or wait at least 30-45 minutes,
 
#23 ·
Who knows, I'm not any kind of an engineer much less one with experience with fluid flow and filtration. We all have asphaltenes in our fuel filters, at least that is what everyone says turns them black, although I never heard the term before this forum. If that was the cause wouldn't we all be having problems?
 
#28 ·
Not to get off topic, but how does Chrysler going bankrupt help with your truck situation?

Manofmeyham said:
Everyone should be using a good fuel additive. I love my truck and hope FCA doesn't go bankrupt; I like having a parts supplier.
Handbook explicitly states not to use a Fuel Additive with the EcoDiesel. If you have any fuel-related issued under warranty and divulge this information you're likely not going to get any repairs. With the high cost of replacing injectors, definitely not a good idea to use Additives under warranty.

jsintx said:
Most likely, yes. However, it can also depend on the filtration of the fuel station(s) as well. You can only deal with things in your control, however there should be more issues in concentrated areas.
Now this is a good point to be made clear to everyone. Fuel is filtered at many stages. The fuel that you put into your tank will differ from station to station, and the effectiveness of the filter in your truck will be dependant on this. Many of the hole-in-the-wall / discount stations will have fuel that has sat in the tank for a long time, enough time to grow diesel bacteria/algae and might not have a filter system rugged enough to capture it before it goes into your tank.

Getting a deal on fuel is definitely a good call, especially with the rising costs, but there is a point where the savings in fuel aren't worth the cost of injectors, HPFPs, or full engine replacements.

Always try to use a station that has high-traffic, and runs their tank near to dry often. Places that offer a bulk discount ($0.04c off per litre if you pump over 100 litres, for example) are usually keen to empty their tank often.

Even if you aren't changing your fuel filter on every oil change, it's worth draining the housing and re-priming the system with fresh diesel as there may be water/debris/bacteria sitting at the bottom of the housing that gets spun up while operating.

Also, always, definitely, change your fuel filter every other oil change at minimum. It's incredibly cheap insurance for your engine.

In the Diesel Film Generator industry, we changed oil and fuel filters every 100-300hours of operation (depending on engine model) due to being unable to control where fuel was being brought in from. Even with that, we had blown injectors, HPFPs, and no-start issues from bacteria build up and dirty fuel all the time.

Our generators even had 2-3 fuel filters, depending on the model. Volvo's had 2 fuel filters and 1 fuel water separator. Cummins had 1 filter, 1 fuel water separator, and 1 cartridge filter we added (Racor filter with turbine pump for priming), Perkins had the least amount of filters but were the newest engines we used so it made sense.
 
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#29 ·
"Handbook explicitly states not to use a Fuel Additive with the EcoDiesel. If you have any fuel-related issued under warranty and divulge this information you're likely not going to get any repairs. With the high cost of replacing injectors, definitely not a good idea to use Additives under warranty."

That is false. The Diesel manual says the following:

NOTE:
• If you accidentally fill the fuel tank with gasoline on your diesel vehicle, do not start the engine. Damage to
the engine and fuel system could occur. Please call
your authorized dealer for service.
• A maximum blend of 5% biodiesel meeting ASTM
specification D-975 may be used with your diesel
engine without any adjustments to regular service schedules.
• Commercially available fuel additives are not necessary for the proper operation of your diesel engine.
• No. 1 Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel should only be used
where extended arctic conditions (-10°F or -23°C) exist.

They just say it isn't necessary, but using additives will NOT void your warranty. Also, the manual suggests using additives where gelling may occur in cold weather. Using a good additive will lubricate your HPFP, prevent asphaltenes from gumming up, prevent wax buildup, and if you run biofuel it will prevent algae from growing. With ULSD the use of a good additive can only help your fuel system since most of the aromatics are removed with the sulphur.
 
#36 ·
"Handbook explicitly states not to use a Fuel Additive with the EcoDiesel. If you have any fuel-related issued under warranty and divulge this information you're likely not going to get any repairs. With the high cost of replacing injectors, definitely not a good idea to use Additives under warranty."

That is false. The Diesel manual says the following:

NOTE:
• If you accidentally fill the fuel tank with gasoline on your diesel vehicle, do not start the engine. Damage to
the engine and fuel system could occur. Please call
your authorized dealer for service.
• A maximum blend of 5% biodiesel meeting ASTM
specification D-975 may be used with your diesel
engine without any adjustments to regular service schedules.
• Commercially available fuel additives are not necessary for the proper operation of your diesel engine.
• No. 1 Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel should only be used
where extended arctic conditions (-10°F or -23°C) exist.

They just say it isn't necessary, but using additives will NOT void your warranty. Also, the manual suggests using additives where gelling may occur in cold weather. Using a good additive will lubricate your HPFP, prevent asphaltenes from gumming up, prevent wax buildup, and if you run biofuel it will prevent algae from growing. With ULSD the use of a good additive can only help your fuel system since most of the aromatics are removed with the sulphur.
Sorry, I was reading this part in the non-diesel specific handbook and glossed over 'octane'

The use of fuel additives, which are now being
sold as octane enhancers, is not recommended.
Most of these products contain high concentrations
of methanol. Fuel system damage or vehicle performance
problems resulting from the use of such
fuels or additives is not the responsibility of the
manufacturer and may void or not be covered
under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty
However I can guarantee if you tell your service manager that you've used Fuel Additives, they'll at least try and use it as an excuse to not honor warranty on fuel parts.
 
#31 ·
Interesting my engine just turned 6,000 hours run time. With my mileage to run time your 300 hours would put me at changing the oil every 15,000 miles which is what I have been doing for at least the last 10 oil changes. But I only change the fuel filter every other oil change and only once or twice ever drained any water at the separator / filter between changes. I also avoid small old economically challenged looking stations where fuel might be older or be more prone to bacteria. Never had an injector or fuel pump failure but Have run additives about half the time. Or the clean Propel when I can.

No I would not want Chrysler to go broke. I don't want to be in the position of having less than 3 of our own auto makers. Not for gov bailouts just don't want to be under the thumb or dependent on foreign companies and yes I know it's now FCA but I still see it as something. BTW hands down best vehicle I have ever owned and I've had a couple that we ran to 250k before selling.
 
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