Battle of the 3.0L Diesels

Battle of the 3.0L Diesels

This is a discussion on Battle of the 3.0L Diesels within the RAM 1500 Diesel Battlefield forums, part of the RAM 1500 EcoDiesel Forum category; I'm hesitant to ask this on an ecodiesel forum, but here goes. With all of the big three offering a 3.0L diesel in a 1/2 ...

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  1. #1
    RAM Rookie ram19's Avatar
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    Battle of the 3.0L Diesels

    I'm hesitant to ask this on an ecodiesel forum, but here goes.

    With all of the big three offering a 3.0L diesel in a 1/2 ton pick-up we now have a choices other than the ecodiesel. I'm in the market for one and have been looking over the options that will be available. I've owned an eco & liked it so I'm a little biased toward it, but I'm also keeping my mind open to the other choices. I've pretty well eliminated the Ford simply because I'm not a Ford guy & never have been one. I am intrigued by the new GM 3.0L Duramax though.

    Here's some of my thinking:

    I liked my eco, but always had it in the back of my mind for when is this thing going to blow up! I'm now finding myself wanting another diesel 1500 truck but I am concerned & wondering if ram has fixed the bottom end issues with the new gen-3 engine. Part of what I like about my ram was the air ride suspension & the interior along with the great fuel economy.

    The new GM engine has some really interesting engineering in it that makes it look pretty attractive as an alternative to the eco. The down side of the GM is they are still behind the curve on their interiors & don't offer the air ride.

    The other down side is both of these engines are newly designed or re-designed. Both of them are an Italian design but will be built in different places, the eco in Italy, the GM in Michigan. Neither of them has a proven track record, other than the previous gen-2 Eco's which had bottom end & emission issues.

    I'm thinking that a guy should wait until both of them are on the dealer lots so you can drive both so you can compare & then make up your mind.

    What's your thoughts? What would you choose?

    Here's link to the new Duramax:

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    RAM Silver Member howie12's Avatar
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    I'll offer a couple comments. First, the following link gives more technical info on the Duramax than I have seen before and the guy explaining it is not much interrupted by the interviewer so he can get a cogent story out there.



    Second, yes the engines are new but the Duramax is completely new from a clean sheet design as best I understand it and it contains a number of new technologies. WHile I am sure GM did their best testing it I expect a couple years in the hands of real customers will yield some surprises. The revised ecodiesel has benefited from the previous version of the engine and its problems. I would expect the revised ecodiesel to have fewer problems than the new Duramax.
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    I would tend to have more faith in the ecodiesel. Ram has had a couple generations of the motor and has had some time to figure out problems and come to some solutions. I know they keep saying about how different the gen 3 is and all the new parts etc. but my bet is they are far more similar than they aren't. Its not a new design its the old design with a few subtle changes.

    I wouldn't let the emissions issues be to big a deciding factor, literally every modern diesel I know of that isn't deleted has issues with the emissions stuff sooner or later.

    All that said... I don't think I would buy a new one, just to much hate in me towards modern electronics and bs on vehicles, I wanted to buy something older instead of my ecodiesel but the wife wanted something new. I feel like you are tossing the dice with either one you would pick. You have a warranty with either so I would be inclined to try something new and give the GM a go.

    That is for no other reason than its what I would do.

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    RAM Guru shawclan5's Avatar
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    Warranty, Experience, Ride Quality, Range, and Price Point specific to model desired are all major factors. Ford way overpriced, GM unproven in North America, and RAM has significant data over 5 years to have learned from.

    As a 'Ford Guy' who still owns an X and 20 year old F150, RAM/FCA engineering has drastically improved and produced a great truck. May be interested in the push rod 7.3/F250 some day...or ED Rebel...

    One huge factor for me with all 3 making great trucks is the 2009 Federal bailout for GM whereas Ford had the 'testosterone' to walk away and FCA saved CJDR from it's own ineptitude.

    Therefore IMO its either Ford or RAM depending on needs and application sought.
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    MAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawclan5 View Post
    Warranty, Experience, Ride Quality, Range, and Price Point specific to model desired are all major factors. Ford way overpriced, GM unproven in North America, and RAM has significant data over 5 years to have learned from.

    As a 'Ford Guy' who still owns an X and 20 year old F150, RAM/FCA engineering has drastically improved and produced a great truck. May be interested in the push rod 7.3/F250 some day...or ED Rebel...

    One huge factor for me with all 3 making great trucks is the 2009 Federal bailout for GM whereas Ford had the 'testosterone' to walk away and FCA saved CJDR from it's own ineptitude.

    Therefore IMO its either Ford or RAM depending on needs and application sought.
    There was way more to do with the bailout than an auto maker.

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    RAM Rookie ram19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie12 View Post
    I'll offer a couple comments. First, the following link gives more technical info on the Duramax than I have seen before and the guy explaining it is not much interrupted by the interviewer so he can get a cogent story out there.



    Second, yes the engines are new but the Duramax is completely new from a clean sheet design as best I understand it and it contains a number of new technologies. WHile I am sure GM did their best testing it I expect a couple years in the hands of real customers will yield some surprises. The revised ecodiesel has benefited from the previous version of the engine and its problems. I would expect the revised ecodiesel to have fewer problems than the new Duramax.
    Lot's of good information in that clip. Very interesting way of doing things especially on the emissions & the short air flow path to the liquid cooled intercooler, this should result in less turbo lag.

    Another thing I didn't mention in my OP was transmissions.

    Ram is still using the ZF 8 speed, it's time proven by all the different vehicles it's been used in including BMW, Rolls Royce, Bentley & FCA on several models to name a few. Where as the ten speed in the GM & ford are a collaborative engineered transmission between ford, gm & a German firm. The main difference between the two transmissions is GM & ford use their own operating software systems to control it. It's a fairly new transmission that doesn't have a track record yet to see if there is problems that might crop-up in the diesel applications.
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    MAS
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    The trans has been running in the fords for quite some time and even in some of the GM's I believe. Also its not backed any diesels other than the ford 3.0 to this point, but it has been behind a boat load of 3.5 ecoboosts which throw down more HP and torque than any of the diesel options I believe.

    Not that I have anything against the ZF, but I think the 10-speed is doing well.

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    RAM Professor AzSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawclan5 View Post
    Warranty, Experience, Ride Quality, Range, and Price Point specific to model desired are all major factors. Ford way overpriced, GM unproven in North America, and RAM has significant data over 5 years to have learned from.

    As a 'Ford Guy' who still owns an X and 20 year old F150, RAM/FCA engineering has drastically improved and produced a great truck. May be interested in the push rod 7.3/F250 some day...or ED Rebel...

    One huge factor for me with all 3 making great trucks is the 2009 Federal bailout for GM whereas Ford had the 'testosterone' to walk away and FCA saved CJDR from it's own ineptitude.

    Therefore IMO its either Ford or RAM depending on needs and application sought.

    Chrysler had two bailouts - one in the 1980's and the more recent Dec 2008. I think all three took US government (taxpayer) monies during the 2008 downturn.

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    RAM Professor AzSky's Avatar
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    For best price it's Ram as long as FCA continues the market share push.

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    RAM Diamond Member Captainmal's Avatar
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    Great questions I have pondered for a few months now. Since I also want to replace my truck, the answers are intriguing.

    Firs money is a factor for me. The GM vehicles are noticeably high priced here in South Florida with little discounts. That is a big issue as I am not able to pay $50,000 for a 1/2 ton pickup - INCLUDING title, tax, rip-off dealer fees and transfer. The add on more for a cap and all the simple accessories I want. Ford is stupidly expensive and it seems GM is also. From that issue alone it stops at the FCA product but I wlill check.

    Next is the important issue of getting rid of the EGR and DEF systems. Right now i know nothing about either one from the standpoint of turning off the EGR and DEF systems. Unless or until I find out what can be done with either one, I would buy neither. That issue is a major factor to me as I will not operate a diesel with the EGR system trashing the engine. Don't care if it has both high pressure and low pressure systems as both the GM and FCA versions will have. That EGR system of sooting the engine is crap. When I bought my Ecodiesel I was stupid on the issue GED saved my bad decision of buying the Ecodiesel and turned it around to a good one. Without someone's tune they are both losers in my book.

    Mechanically the GM has had issues with their air conditioners and transmissions. Do not know about the new 10 speed but have been hearing trouble. Air conditioners are still crap and break often Here in Florida mine is on 365 each year. Another issue. The FCA ZF transmission is good but service on one is hideous and maybe less than that. No dipstick's with no filler and horrible re-fill procedures are complete loser. Yet, they seem to take a "licking' and keep on ticking".

    I flat out love the in-line GM design. Real shame my experience with local dealers of GM products is at best - horrible meat factories waiting to skewer you. Seems like all the ones around Tampa are like that.

    Surely following the upcoming tests and will soon start the dealer visitations to learn more.
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