FCA and Renault

FCA and Renault

This is a discussion on FCA and Renault within the RAM 1500 Diesel General Discussion forums, part of the RAM 1500 EcoDiesel Forum category; Offered without comment as an FYI. https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/25/cars/...ult/index.html...

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Thread: FCA and Renault

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    RAM Sr Member bpdougd's Avatar
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    FCA and Renault

    Offered without comment as an FYI.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/25/cars/...ult/index.html
    Doug Dickerson
    "We have not inherited the Earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children."

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    RAM Diamond Member Captainmal's Avatar
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    I'll make a comment.

    Renault (RNLSY), Nissan (NSANF) and Mitsubishi (MSBHY)...

    These companies might merge. This is the list plus FCA. If that happens then where goes the Cummins V8 diesel if part of the same company? Then you would be speculating on operation, Japans' involvement, production and distribution plus more. It's horrifying to me and was from the inception of Chrysler with Fiat. I know and remember history.
    If you wrestle with a pig you'll both get dirty and the pig loves it. .

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    RAM Sr Member bpdougd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captainmal View Post
    I'll make a comment.

    Renault (RNLSY), Nissan (NSANF) and Mitsubishi (MSBHY)...

    These companies might merge. This is the list plus FCA. If that happens then where goes the Cummins V8 diesel if part of the same company? Then you would be speculating on operation, Japans' involvement, production and distribution plus more. It's horrifying to me and was from the inception of Chrysler with Fiat. I know and remember history.
    I survived numerous mergers, buy-outs, bankruptcies during my work life. These personal experiences plus simple observation lead me to a few conclusions.

    Vanishingly few mergers/buy-outs produce a stronger company. Corporate cultures are as unique as the human societies they exist within. Merged companies go through at least one cycle and often continuous cycles of in-fighting and power struggles as competing redundant groups try to survive. In the end, one of the original companies will prevail at choosing the survivors and setting the tone and agenda for the new, merged entity. What comes out of the other end of this process is usually less than the sum of the parts and weaker that any of the original companies.

    Renault is a troubled company. Nissan is a troubled company (with a concerning trend of quality problems). Mitsubishi, a minuscule player in the US (five models, 54000 total unit sales) is the 19th largest auto maker worldwide. It is 34% owned by Nissan. I suspect if the three members of the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance actually merge into a single company (with FCA looking to be a likely fourth member) Mitsubishi might disappear. And I also suspect that the resulting company may be bad news for us consumers.

    Time will tell. But, as Han Solo often observed, I have a bad feeling about this.
    redsunBC likes this.
    Doug Dickerson
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    RAM Diamond Member Captainmal's Avatar
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    Only merger I ever did was getting on an interstate.

    Appreciate your experienced insight.
    If you wrestle with a pig you'll both get dirty and the pig loves it. .

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    RAM Sr Member bpdougd's Avatar
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    Doug Dickerson
    "We have not inherited the Earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children."

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    RAM Silver Member howie12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpdougd View Post
    I survived numerous mergers, buy-outs, bankruptcies during my work life. These personal experiences plus simple observation lead me to a few conclusions.

    Vanishingly few mergers/buy-outs produce a stronger company. Corporate cultures are as unique as the human societies they exist within. Merged companies go through at least one cycle and often continuous cycles of in-fighting and power struggles as competing redundant groups try to survive. In the end, one of the original companies will prevail at choosing the survivors and setting the tone and agenda for the new, merged entity. What comes out of the other end of this process is usually less than the sum of the parts and weaker that any of the original companies.

    Renault is a troubled company. Nissan is a troubled company (with a concerning trend of quality problems). Mitsubishi, a minuscule player in the US (five models, 54000 total unit sales) is the 19th largest auto maker worldwide. It is 34% owned by Nissan. I suspect if the three members of the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance actually merge into a single company (with FCA looking to be a likely fourth member) Mitsubishi might disappear. And I also suspect that the resulting company may be bad news for us consumers.

    Time will tell. But, as Han Solo often observed, I have a bad feeling about this.
    I cannot disagree with your general comments. I am not sure what industry you worked in and I think that makes a difference as does the condition of the Companies involved. I agree that mergers of auto companies have not been stellar successes. I think it is a consequence of the general state of the industry and the health of the companies as well as your comments that have resulted in this outcome.

    I also have been involved in several significant mergers over my working career and they were very successful. That industry was the Integrated International Oil Industry. THe Exxon and Mobil merger (more correctly described as Exxon buying Mobil) was successful. The Chevron merger with Texaco (again more correctly described as Chevron buying Texaco) was a success as was the Chevron Gulf merger and the Chevron Unocal Upstream merger. In all these cases the dominant company was financially strong and technically strong and didn't have to do that particular merger. The upstream exploration and production side of the oil business is a great deal different than a typical manufacturing business for sure. Additionally the mergers I mention here were all between US based companies. The one oil industry merger that I would say was less successful was the BP merger.acquisition of Amoco. That was a cross border merger and the culture class was severe. Cultural differences between companies from different coutries are much greater than those from the same country.

    I too am not enamored with the proposed Deal described here. It will detract too much attention from day to day development and execution. I hope I am wrong.

    All the best,

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    RAM Professional phprof's Avatar
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    FCA quality control has always been a question mark. WIth Renault it is a certainty to go down the tubes to a cesspool.
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    RAM Sr Member bpdougd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie12 View Post
    I cannot disagree with your general comments. I am not sure what industry you worked in and I think that makes a difference as does the condition of the Companies involved. I agree that mergers of auto companies have not been stellar successes. I think it is a consequence of the general state of the industry and the health of the companies as well as your comments that have resulted in this outcome.
    Most of my corporate experience is from the IT industry, specifically Digital Equipment Corporation, Compaq and HP (with a couple of startups along the way). My son's story is the same with stints at Software Artistry, IBM and a ton of startups. This, of course, colors my conclusions. While I have friends in other industries who report similar experiences, all of this is anecdotal. My impression is that more mergers fail than succeed. And I suspect a reason is the contemporary corporate culture and the contemporary expectations of shareholders of publicly traded corporations.
    I also have been involved in several significant mergers over my working career and they were very successful. That industry was the Integrated International Oil Industry. THe Exxon and Mobil merger (more correctly described as Exxon buying Mobil) was successful. The Chevron merger with Texaco (again more correctly described as Chevron buying Texaco) was a success as was the Chevron Gulf merger and the Chevron Unocal Upstream merger. In all these cases the dominant company was financially strong and technically strong and didn't have to do that particular merger. The upstream exploration and production side of the oil business is a great deal different than a typical manufacturing business for sure. Additionally the mergers I mention here were all between US based companies. The one oil industry merger that I would say was less successful was the BP merger.acquisition of Amoco. That was a cross border merger and the culture class was severe. Cultural differences between companies from different coutries are much greater than those from the same country.
    Interesting observations. It is always good to get other perspectives. I agree that international mergers are much more challenging. When Daimler bought Chrysler the joke was: What is the proper pronunciation of the new company? Answer: the Chrysler is silent. Sadly I think there was a kernel of truth to the joke.
    I too am not enamored with the proposed Deal described here. It will detract too much attention from day to day development and execution. I hope I am wrong.

    All the best,
    I agree. I hope we are both wrong but I suspect we are not.
    Doug Dickerson
    "We have not inherited the Earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children."

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    RAM Sr Member bpdougd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phprof View Post
    FCA quality control has always been a question mark. WIth Renault it is a certainty to go down the tubes to a cesspool.
    I hate to judge based on hearsay. I have no recent direct experience of Renault quality. My first experience with Renault was the Dauphine in 1960 (although the 4CV had been sold in the US since the late 40's). It sold well enough for a foreign niche vehicle through the 60's. With the launch of Le Car in the late seventies, Renault's fortunes in the US were circling the porcelain bowl. It was sold through American Motors dealerships and was a pretty dreadful car. Renault tried to salvage things with two new models manufactured here (the Alliance and the Encore). While the Alliance got a Motor Trend Car Of The Year award, neither vehicle sold well and by 1987 Renault was gone from the North American market. This is all a long-winded way of saying that my impressions of Renault were formed 4 decades ago and I should probably wait for more data before forming an opinion.
    Doug Dickerson
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    RAM Professional Dieseldragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpdougd View Post
    I hate to judge based on hearsay. I have no recent direct experience of Renault quality. My first experience with Renault was the Dauphine in 1960 (although the 4CV had been sold in the US since the late 40's). It sold well enough for a foreign niche vehicle through the 60's. With the launch of Le Car in the late seventies, Renault's fortunes in the US were circling the porcelain bowl. It was sold through American Motors dealerships and was a pretty dreadful car. Renault tried to salvage things with two new models manufactured here (the Alliance and the Encore). While the Alliance got a Motor Trend Car Of The Year award, neither vehicle sold well and by 1987 Renault was gone from the North American market. This is all a long-winded way of saying that my impressions of Renault were formed 4 decades ago and I should probably wait for more data before forming an opinion.
    Hi: bpdougd... I had a '68 R10. Used it for 100,000 miles and to road rally on the weekends. My mother used to chide me about taking a new car out on the gravel and push it sideways thru the corners... but "Boys will be boys"!!! Got married and my wife to be said "Her half of the car had to be a "Slushbox". Got a '71 R16. Then a '74 R12 stationwagon to haul household items. This was all BC. Before children when I could trade frequently.
    Dieseldragon North shore of Lake Erie.

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