Vm Motori 3.0 L European experience ?? - Page 2

Vm Motori 3.0 L European experience ??

This is a discussion on Vm Motori 3.0 L European experience ?? within the RAM 1500 Diesel General Discussion forums, part of the RAM 1500 EcoDiesel Forum category; Im curious how we know that the euro models of the engine are running the same bearings, rods, crank, pistons valves, springs heads etc.? Where ...

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  1. #11
    MAS
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    Im curious how we know that the euro models of the engine are running the same bearings, rods, crank, pistons valves, springs heads etc.? Where would you, or where did you find that information? Not saying it cant happen, but I find it odd to think something like a Maserati having the exact same engine as our trucks.

    I also remember reading somewhere that the bearings used in the ecodiesel were some kind of green low heavy metal content bearings or something?
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    RAM Sr Member Jinx's Avatar
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    Bearing technology has been around now for a long time so If there was no special effort to go some kind of green lead free bearing I don't really question the bearing themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Bearing technology has been around now for a long time so If there was no special effort to go some kind of green lead free bearing I don't really question the bearing themselves.
    I do believe I read somewhere that the ecodiesel uses lead free bearings.

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    RAM Sr Member Jinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAS View Post
    I do believe I read somewhere that the ecodiesel uses lead free bearings.
    I hope not ! if you find the info I would like to read it.

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    Why would it be worse if the bearings are lead free?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskibum View Post
    Why would it be worse if the bearings are lead free?
    I don't know what properties lead may bring to the table for bearings, but I know that in most cases when things are made "green" it is done for other reasons than increasing the reliability, durability, and longevity of the product.
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  8. #17
    RAM Veteran jsintx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    I have heard the VM Motori 3.0 L engine has been considered a durable rugged engine in Europe I would like to read some info and European users comments if I can. Also I get the impression the European models do not have an EGR system, anybody happen to have a link to any info on the European model ?
    This is a bit old but should help

  9. #18
    RAM Rookie jec2018ram1500's Avatar
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    The EU emission standards for on and off road diesel powered vehicles is virtually identical to the US. They make it a lot more complicated based on vehicle "type" but it is really all the same. They were just phased in sooner.
    The primary polluants are NOx and particulate matter. CO is a concern but CO was bottomed out in the regulations in 2006. It was easy to do and really has no place in the current emissions discussion, it is all about NOx and PM. NOx and PM requirements continued to drop until 2014. That is not to say that the eco-nut jobs won't try to foist a CO2 requirement in the future.
    In was all supposed to end in the US with tier 4 final technology (2014 off road). That has now been changed and we are looking at tier 5 which basically changes the way particulate in measured in the exhaust.

    EPA and the EU do not require technology. That is up to the manufacturer. The use of EGR, or to what extent, is totally up to the manufacturers to meet the requirements. A good example is when International tried "enhanced EGR" to avoid using DEF. This approach destroyed the MaxForce DT engine and nearly bankrupted International to the point that they now offer Cummins engines and have licensed Cummins emission package to get the DT back into production. Others like JCB have no DPF's in their Tier 4 finals (of some sizes). Many smaller HP industrial engines (Kubota, Duetz,) use EGR that avoid the use of DEF.

    So, all this EGR is the devil stuff is just no true. In the case of International where EGR was used exclusively it is clearly a problem. In most applications and designs in works just fine.
    And don't forget, many diesel engines have been running some sort of EGR for a very long time. Volvo construction equipment have run EGR since Tier 2 (2004). Oil residue in the compression side of the turbo, in the charge air cooler and all! Requirements and designs have changed but EGR is not new because of the EcoDiesel or tier 4 final.

    Below is a graph that illustrates the phased in reduction of PM and NOx over the years and emission tiers. Very similar across all on and off road diesel vehicles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vm Motori 3.0 L European experience ??-tier4_agriculture_graph.png
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  10. #19
    RAM Sr Member Jinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jec2018ram1500 View Post
    The EU emission standards for on and off road diesel powered vehicles is virtually identical to the US. They make it a lot more complicated based on vehicle "type" but it is really all the same. They were just phased in sooner.
    The primary polluants are NOx and particulate matter. CO is a concern but CO was bottomed out in the regulations in 2006. It was easy to do and really has no place in the current emissions discussion, it is all about NOx and PM. NOx and PM requirements continued to drop until 2014. That is not to say that the eco-nut jobs won't try to foist a CO2 requirement in the future.
    In was all supposed to end in the US with tier 4 final technology (2014 off road). That has now been changed and we are looking at tier 5 which basically changes the way particulate in measured in the exhaust.

    EPA and the EU do not require technology. That is up to the manufacturer. The use of EGR, or to what extent, is totally up to the manufacturers to meet the requirements. A good example is when International tried "enhanced EGR" to avoid using DEF. This approach destroyed the MaxForce DT engine and nearly bankrupted International to the point that they now offer Cummins engines and have licensed Cummins emission package to get the DT back into production. Others like JCB have no DPF's in their Tier 4 finals (of some sizes). Many smaller HP industrial engines (Kubota, Duetz,) use EGR that avoid the use of DEF.

    So, all this EGR is the devil stuff is just no true. In the case of International where EGR was used exclusively it is clearly a problem. In most applications and designs in works just fine.
    And don't forget, many diesel engines have been running some sort of EGR for a very long time. Volvo construction equipment have run EGR since Tier 2 (2004). Oil residue in the compression side of the turbo, in the charge air cooler and all! Requirements and designs have changed but EGR is not new because of the EcoDiesel or tier 4 final.

    Below is a graph that illustrates the phased in reduction of PM and NOx over the years and emission tiers. Very similar across all on and off road diesel vehicles.
    If the EGR is not the Devil then what is causing the engine bearing failures ?

  11. #20
    RAM Sr Member lucskoj's Avatar
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    I know you are correct about the EPA doesnít require things like a DPF or DEF, thatís just what manufacturers use to meet the EPA requirements. I believe it was Cummins recently that was able to meet NOx requirements without the use of an EGR. But I had heard they got shut down because the EPA required an EGR.


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