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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone tried to do an aux oil cooler complelety offline from the factory oil path?

With an aluminum pan why can't it be as simple as drill and tapping it, run a scavenge pump, filter, aux cooler, and then return it back to the oil pan?

Use a temp probe to turn the pump on at whatever chosen temp.

T his means no factory oil cooler adapter plate and worrying about pressure drops from possible "poor" cooler design?


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Without very careful testing one might run the sump too low and cause a lack of oil for the engine. Not saying it couldn't work but would require some careful testing to get it right.
 

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Seems to me it could work. I'd take the suction off the drain plug and return it to the pan above the normal oil level and and it seems li should be easy to ensure the oil level in the pan is fine and cannot see how it would vary significantly. The complication of a simple pump that if it fails to run leaves you with the factory setup at worst seems goood. THe biggest risk I see is ensuring the added hoses and taps are as foolproof as possible, I would control with a manual dash switch for use when high oil temp is kikely and keep it as simple as possible.
 

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My main concern is when the pump starts it could cause to oil level to drop briefly and starve the engine. It wouldnt be a constant starvation but it doesn't take much to damage a bearing. The larger the cooler and lines the more likely it would be.
 

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Seems like reinventing the wheel to me.

If you don't maintain constant pressure against the cooler you run the risk of developing air pockets which could lead to problems.

My oil cooler has an oil thermostat which allows 10% oil flow when the thermostat is closed to prevent air pockets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Broken, you'd fill the system with the extra volume. Oil out = oil in. If the aux system is full you can't run the sump lower than stock. But, then this would require the aux system to always run or some way to block drain back if off. Then again, for people like Bounty running the larger aux cooler, with added oil to the system, does the added oil cause issues at startup with "too much in the pan"? I'm guessing no and wouldn't think the system would be that sensitive to a couple extra quarts in it at startup.

Bounty, if the wheel wasn't constantly reinvented we wouldn't have product evolution. I know your system works well, but I've also had to run calculations for hydraulic cooling systems that while aren't exactly the same require pretty damn critical calcs and hardware choices. To do an inline cooler I'm much more critical and I can't find specs on your cooler or similar ones to that (you've claimed 200,000 BTU, but where'd you get that number? Honest question, I'd be more comfortable if I had data).

To remove the cooler from the critical engine supply loop I'd be more lax in "testing" a setup then. If it doesn't work then you haven't effected the engine supply.

I can understand air pockets in an inline cooler being an issue, but not in an isolated cooling loop unless it caused foaming?


FWIW, I'm piecing together a kit like yours since I know it works, but I got to thinking last night about how to remove the cooling from the supply loop.
 

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Using an inline cooler which Bounty and me both use the same cooler it uses the stock anti drain back valve built into the oil filter adaptor housing so once the cooler and lines are filled they stay filled. You could add one to the cooling loop which would elimante the possible issue with sump level changing. My cooler is full flow with no thermostat I control airflow instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How much more volume of oil do you guys have to add?
The nominal dimensions of 26x7x3.5 give a volume of 11 quarts. Subtract all the internal metal and I'd guess you have an effective volume of roughly 5 quarts (then add line volume)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Has anyone done their own BTU calculations for cooling?
I don't have access to the tools I used to use to calculate the BTU's of the hydraulic units anymore so I'm having to use online calculators. The few I've used are giving roughly the same results so I'm assuming they are accurate. However, the results I'm getting don't seem to amount to reality based on your two's requirement for such a large cooler (However I do not know the flow rate of the internal oiling system of the engine).

So my calcs are based on a isolated cooling loop as follows:
My calcs are based on a Delta-T of 30* (as in, if I was running 260 oil temps I'd be satisfied at 230)
BTU = 60 (minutes per hour) * 7.5 (lbs per gallon oil) * Specific Heat * Specific Gravity * Delta T * Gallons Per Minute (nominal oil pump flowrate)
BTU = 60 * 7.5 * 1 * .92 * 30 * 3.2
BTU = 39,744

So my calculation says I need ~40k BTU cooling capability to reduce temps 30*

If your guys coolers are the assumed 200,000 BTU I'm wondering what the pressure/flow disruption to the internal oil system is. (Don't really want an answer, as it will be conjecture, I read the other thread where Patriot chimed in... I don't want to open that can o worms again)

But if I had a isolated cooling loop, it doesn't seem I need an overly large cooler....

BUT, didn't GDE do testing and they concluded it would require an impossibly large cooler to make the difference they wanted?
Then again, what was their temp goals?
 

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Curious if there might be an upgrade part from a 3d gen EcoDiesel. I believe they have solved some of the oil temp issues... I have never had a problem with oil temps in my 2017 while towing. I live in Maine, however. Have towed trailers as heavy as 10,000 lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Worth looking into the new parts to see.

"never had a problem with oil temps" is subjective though. We don't have "problems" till we hit derate temp. The point of adding these aftermarket coolers is to steer completely clear of ever getting close. I've hit upper 250's towing my TT through West Virgina. If I can keep it down in the 230's or 40's at max load I'd really never have to worry then.
 

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I dont have the exact btu measurements but I do know the estimated btu is 200k but thats also when using water. Since oil doesnt displace heat as quickly Im not sure about the true efficiency. But mine works extremely well and lower my oil temps significantly 230-250 F peak depending on if I run the fans vs 270 F and a derate. The amount of oil mine took after installing the current cooler and replacing both hoses took 14 quarts so 3.5 quarts more volume than before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, I used the water specific heat value. Some more digging for ~15w40 mineral oil gives a specific heat value of ~2.3 @ ~260*F

So the equation for a 30* Delta from 260* is
BTU = 60 * 7.5 * 2.3 * .92 * 30 * 3.2
BTU = 91,411

Still within the realm of a couple of the Setrab coolers (and likely others) linked from one of the other oil cooler threads.
 

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BUT, didn't GDE do testing and they concluded it would require an impossibly large cooler to make the difference they wanted?
Then again, what was their temp goals?
I tried two different smaller coolers, each larger than the one before, and they did not cool enough for pulling my toy hauler. Very happy with my current setup. The only change I plan on making is moving either the oil cooler or the CAC to behind the front bumper. As it stands now, the oil cooler heat soaks the coolant stack and leads to higher EGT. I'm leaning towards installing a larger CAC from CFT behind the front bumper with twin fans and a bumper slot.

Guessing my cooler adds 3-3.5 qts, and I'm not seeing any drain-back into the pan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've been wanting to go to a 2/3500 MOVE bumper, add a slot in it and mount the oil cooler right behind it for that reason.

I'm leaning towards the same cooler you guys are using as a isolated cooling loop. If it don't work as I'd intend then I go with the stock cooler delete plate and go inline with it.


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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well I've bought just about everything I'll need to do this. All -10AN fittings, PTFE SS braided hose, inline temp switch (On 200, Off 190), 2.5Gal/20psi oil pump, check valves, inline filter, etc.

Plan is
Bulkhead fitting in pan --> Tempswitch --> Oil Pump --> Check Valve --> Filter --> Cooler --> Check Valve --> Bulkhead fitting in pan

Two check valves to keep whatever volume is in the cooler loop in there when the system cycles off. Cracking pressure of the check valves is .5PSI so no issue dead heading against it.

The Temp switch and filter are optional I think. I'd wire the temp switch through a dash switch as a master On/Off.
Filter is 100 micron fuel filter. Figured if the pump comes apart it would catch the crap before getting back to the pan. The engine oil filter would catch the finer stuff.
 

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Seems i recall the oil pan does not come off easily. Like maybe you had to remove the engine or something first? Then how much room do you have inside the pan to mount the bulkheads? I like the idea of this one. Keeps the cooler completely out of the oiling system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
AFE sells a deep sump pan.... can't be too hard to remove the lower half.
Bulkhead fitting should only go into the pan a small amount, shouldn't have clearance issues as long as I steer clear of the pickup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It appears the transmission needs unbolted for the upper half of the oil pan to be removed. The lower section though should be able to be removed without problems.

86931
 
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