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That AFE pan might be a good addition for this. Two extra quarts would be a good thing. Any reason you wouldn't want to run both bulkheads under the oil level in the pan? You wouldn't have to worry about air getting into the system.
 

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I have the AFE oil pan. It has internal and external cooling fins and extra oil capacity bringing it up to an even 12qts/3gallons. Very easy install.

It feel like it lowered my oil temp about 10° and helps the oil cool down faster after a heat spike.

This is in addition to removing the front skid plate when not needed so more air can flow over it.

My truck is also leveled so not sure if that allows more air to flow through the under belly or not...
 

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Where are the internal fins? Those might make it hard to mount the bulkhead fitting. Maybe if its thick enough you could just drill and pipe tap it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Unstuck, the extra capacity of the afe pan is below the oil pickup I'm guessing. So if sucking oil level below the stock level is an issue when adding a cooler the afe pan won't help. I'd still need to add the cooler capacity on top of the added pan capacity.

Not that I haven't considered the afe pan just to make drilling and tapping the pan easiest.

Also I don't see internal fins on afes pictures.

And nothing is stopping me from putting both bulk heads below oil level. If I tap the bottom half-pan that's where it will be.


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I was thinking the new oil pan came with a new, longer pick up. If that's not the case than it may not be worth it. I think you would be better off putting both bulkheads under the oil level. You wouldn't need check valves and wouldn't worry about air issues or aeration. What pump did you go with?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Their site doesn't say anything about a new pickup so I'm assuming it doesn't.

I'd need to keep the entire cooling loop below the oil pan level for its volume to not matter and not need check valves. Since Im mounting the cooler behind the opening of a Ram HD bumper it will be above the oil level line I'm assuming. Once the system is primed I would need to retain a full loop else the extra oil would increase the pans oil level when off.

If I find that everything is below the oil line then you're right. I'll find out more as I do this.
 

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I'm probably wrong, but if you mount the two bulkheads under the oil line, it wont be able to drain much, if anything, because no air would be able to replace the oil that wants to drain out. Not only that, but a normal flapper check valve only works in one direction so in order to hold the oil in the cooler you would have to install the valve so it doesn't allow draining back to the pan. This would also prevent the normal flow to the pan that you want. I guess you could run a ball/spring check valve, but you would then have to induce pressure into the system, not just flow. That may or may not matter. I think I would want a very low GPM (like 1 gpm) pump with little to no pressure in the system. Just needs to have enough head height to pump up to the bumper/radiator area.
 

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It will also be very interesting to see what size cooler you will actually need. Since you are not loosing the stock cooler you wont have to make up that difference. Any cooler you use will make a positive difference and it will be a piece of cake to test and see what the cooler is really capable of.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Yes, the check valves have a cracking pressure of 1/2PSI. The pump is rated at 20PSI (under what viscosity, I don't know), so the pump will have no problem operating the cooling loop.
Hydraulic pressure will bleed off near instantly when the system is OFF so not much oil will drain by the check valves before they close. The only downside I see is inability to drain the cooling loop while doing an oil change, short of cracking one of the fittings open.

The pump says it's rated for 2.5gpm. That's up in the air though as that identical pump sold on ebay and race vendors list it from 2-3.4gpm.... either way I don't think its too much flow.
 

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I'm going to give this pump a try.
Ebay oil scavenging pump

I'd like to offer a couple comments on the pump.

1-its speed and therefore its volume will vary with voltage. If the rating is at 12 volts when the engine is running you will have 13.5-14.4 volts or so and the pump will run faster and the volume will be greater as will the maximum pressure.

2-Would be nice to see a maximum temperature rating on the pump.

3-Would be nice to read something that says suitable for continuous service or an estimate of running life

4-If you can find a more fully specified pump of a bit more money it may well be worth it. It strikes me as unlikely that the motor is built as well as the cabin HVAC fan.

I will also offer one unrelated comment-In the olden days many engines had remote mount oil filters and many engines were ruined when the connecting pipes and/or connecting hoses failed and pumped all the oil on the ground. Engine mounted full flow filters solved all those problems. Be very careful with the choice of connectors, pipe/hoses and mounting of same to ensure nothing can snag them or they won't rub and wear through somewhere. Also consider tapping your pan in locations that leaves enough oil in the sump if a line fails or a connector comes loose.

Good luck,
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Howie, great thoughts.
1) Already considered. Which is why I went with this one spec'd at 2.5gpm. Though as I said, many places list this same pump differently depending on where you look.
2) I as well, but everything from what I can search is metal inside. Nothing to melt. Real test will be real-testing I guess.
3) One site listed this as 30% duty cycle but if this is "built for" a scavenge pump intended for remote turbo systems it needs to be damn near 100% duty cycle. I'll test and see what happens. They are cheap enough to replace. In any event I don't plan to run this for daily driving. The idea is to turn it on when towing and temps creep when pulling grades. Relatively short duration's like those shouldn't be a problem.
4) There are likely better pumps, at much higher prices. If this works amazing, and the pump is a limit I'll upgrade. Till then....

Can't really use historic data about materials and workmanship when comparing to using todays modern PTFE lined braided hoses and AN fittings. Short of user error (and user could screw up installing the modern oil filter and wreck an engine) there really isn't a worry in my mind about using the modern approach to these hoses and fittings.

Where to tap is also up in the air till I pull the bottom pan. I figure I need to tap on opposite sides of the pan, with the suction side away from the pickup. Then dump the cooling line in near the pickup. This way the engine is seeing the cooler oil, the cooling line isn't trying to starve the pickup (if that's possible), and the cooling loop isn't sucking in what it just dumped back into the pan.
 

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Howie, great thoughts.
1) Already considered. Which is why I went with this one spec'd at 2.5gpm. Though as I said, many places list this same pump differently depending on where you look.
2) I as well, but everything from what I can search is metal inside. Nothing to melt. Real test will be real-testing I guess.
3) One site listed this as 30% duty cycle but if this is "built for" a scavenge pump intended for remote turbo systems it needs to be damn near 100% duty cycle. I'll test and see what happens. They are cheap enough to replace. In any event I don't plan to run this for daily driving. The idea is to turn it on when towing and temps creep when pulling grades. Relatively short duration's like those shouldn't be a problem.
4) There are likely better pumps, at much higher prices. If this works amazing, and the pump is a limit I'll upgrade. Till then....

Can't really use historic data about materials and workmanship when comparing to using todays modern PTFE lined braided hoses and AN fittings. Short of user error (and user could screw up installing the modern oil filter and wreck an engine) there really isn't a worry in my mind about using the modern approach to these hoses and fittings.

Where to tap is also up in the air till I pull the bottom pan. I figure I need to tap on opposite sides of the pan, with the suction side away from the pickup. Then dump the cooling line in near the pickup. This way the engine is seeing the cooler oil, the cooling line isn't trying to starve the pickup (if that's possible), and the cooling loop isn't sucking in what it just dumped back into the pan.
Perfect. Glad you have thoroughly thought about these items. I guess there is some kind of seal on the motor shaft driving the driven gear. Perhaps it is a proper lip seal but bet it could be just an O-ring. I am quite sure it isn't a mechanical seal. Anyhow, I cannot quarrel with your philosophy given the price of the pump.

I also agree that the hoses of today are different than those from the days of yore and flared copper lines are unlikely to be used today. You seem like a thorough guy so I expect you will sweat the details with regard to hose/fitting choice, routing and securing keeping in mind the motion of the engine on the motor mounts.

All the best and look forward to reading the performance test results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Thanks Howie. I'm Def a person to analyze everything to the point of analysis paralysis, a lot.


The cooler and thermostat arrived. This is a much nicer unit than I expected.



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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Thanks to afe directions we see the oil pick up is towards the front of the pan. It does not come down past the bottom of the upper pan.



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I'm surprised you went with the BIG cooler. It's almost overkill for the standard cooler replacement. It should allow for your pump to run less, but maybe cycle more. Not sure if that is good or bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Thermostat is On at 200 and off at 190. I'm not sure I'll pull temps down to 190 pulling hard.
The reason I chose this size is because I know it works for others in-line so if my experiment doesn't work I can go that route with the same cooler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Most on the AN goodies arrived.



And so did the pump. Note it's specs
3.2gpm not the 2.5 per eBay. I figured that would really be the case.



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This may have already been explained; so pardon me if I missed it.

But wouldn't it be way simpler to add the additional cooler inline after the current factory cooler? Then you don't have to worry about an additional pump and all the lines to and from the bottom of the pan?

On the jeeps I build (add tracks to them for us on frozen lakes and snow) I have a huge issue with controlling transmission temps. So far the best solution has been to stack trans coolers inline after the factory cooler (if exists).

Wouldn't the stacking of coolers be the least issue prone approach?
 
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