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Discussion Starter #1
Hi I am new to the group, so Hello! I have a question. My Dad has a 2006 Cummins and when I bought my 3.0 2015, He suggested that I add a pint of oil when I filled up. He said that it adds lubrication to the injectors. Will this help or hurt the 3.0? By the way He has almost 600K on His Cummins. Thank you for your expertise.
 

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I personally wouldn’t, Your EcoDiesel has Emissions with a dpf ...

If you want to run a fuel addictive there’s many choices and they actually state they’re good for the Emissions components ... DPF

If you’re just learning about modern diesel’s, They have a soot can (DPF) that collect’s soot And it’ll fill and then it goes through a burning process of the accumulated soot ...

Your father has a good old fashion diesel.... These modern diesel’s are starting to work out the bugs pretty decent now ...
 

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I agree with H-N-G, the new diesels r a totally different animal than the older diesels. Emission systems have them putting out ZERO smoke, Adding oil to the fuel system may cause more problems than it's worth.
 
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Your dad wasn't wrong adding oil to his Cummins. At that time diesel fuel was often iffy, the engine needs lubricity in the fuel and fuel additives were not prevalent. The recommended oil was 2 stroke, not 4 stroke motor oil.

As others have posted, with today's sensors and emissions systems adding oil can/will be problematic. Use any of the fuel additives that include lubricity and enjoy your Ecodiesel.
 
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Forgot to mention, that is why some of these diesels require a special oil. The euro oils have low SAPS, sulphate ash and phosphorus. These are big thing that plugs up the dpf and can gum up sensors. Mind you mid SAPS is like 1% and low is less than 1%.
 

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I wouldnt. The ash and other additives may cause issues.
Correct. I should have included it was "ashless" 2-stroke oil.
 

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Thank you all for your advice!! I currently add the Clean Diesel fuel additive. Yes I am a first time diesel owner so I am learning a lot from all the discussions. There are many terms that I am very unfamiliar with, you all are "sending me to school" so to speak.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Does Lucas have oil and fuel additives for diesels? I am not able to find any where I shop.
 

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Duaine,

Have you read the owner's manual for your truck? If so you will see that FCA says no additive is required. Obviously there are a lot of opinions of fuel additives on this forum and elsewhere. AS best I can find there is no reliable and objective current studies showing additives are advantageous to the life of modern diesel engines using good quality modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.

Lots of people like them and have a favorite one they use. My view is their main purpose is to enrich the manufacturer. The one exception in my mind are antigelling additives in the fall is you have summer fuel and end up in a cold snap.

Enjoy your truck
 

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This White Paper says additives are good for the engines.

Of note - very few of us running additives are having problems compared to those who don’t. Like few of us running high quality oils have ever had engine problems.... but all you need it Rotella on those Gen 2s....even though bearing temps can be 75+ above sump, sump can run 270+ in the mountains pulling a hill, and the oil fails at 302.....

As a technician - I get to see the failures daily. I have a 2019 Cummins in the shop now with a High Pressure Pump failure - the fuel is clean - but I’d bet money that’s the cause! That’s not a failure we see often. Particularly at low miles. Enough of a rarity that parts availability is November....
 

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This White Paper says additives are good for the engines.

Of note - very few of us running additives are having problems compared to those who don’t. Like few of us running high quality oils have ever had engine problems.... but all you need it Rotella on those Gen 2s....even though bearing temps can be 75+ above sump, sump can run 270+ in the mountains pulling a hill, and the oil fails at 302.....

As a technician - I get to see the failures daily. I have a 2019 Cummins in the shop now with a High Pressure Pump failure - the fuel is clean - but I’d bet money that’s the cause! That’s not a failure we see often. Particularly at low miles. Enough of a rarity that parts availability is November....
Thanks for posting their claims. I am in a hurry now and will read it more thoroughly later but did skim and note the following paragraph ref water in the fuel-

PREVENTS RUST and ABSORBS WATER The major problem with water in diesel fuel is the rusting of the fuel system which will occur. Even the slightest rust on the injection metering valves can mean a new injection pump or injectors. The use of small amounts of alcohols does not significantly dissolve water into the fuel, but only adds to the volume of the water phase and makes the water phase more corrosive. Red Line 85+ will disperse 25% of its volume of water (12 ounces disperses 3 ounces) without the use of alcohol and will safely carry condensation water through the fuel system, while preventing rust even in the presence of larger quantities of water as shown in Figure 7

It is my understanding that the best practice for water in diesel is to ensure it gets taken care of by the fuel filter/water separator and if you use an additive it should be a "deemulsifier" that promotes the separation of the water and fuel so the filter/water separator can deal with it. Redline's additive claims to mix the water with the fuel, prevent its separation in the water separator, and run it through the engine.

I sure wish there was some uniform unbiased testing out there. I can understand that some of these additives may make certain properties better but it is hard to appreciate the value of that without knowing what is 'good enough' in a practical way. It sure would be nice to see some data from a large fleet owner with some engines untreated and some treated. I am aware that individual and small fleet owners sometimes use these additives but I have never read about the big transport companies, UPS, FEDEX etc that really study cost and efficiency using these or other additives.

It seems to me if it made sense the largest fleet owners would be using them.

Any thoughts on the water in fuel issue?
 

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Yes.
There shouldn’t be any.
When it happens, the larger particles will be separated by the filter.
Alcohol mixes with water.
The mode of operation of Red Line appears to be dispersant. Meaning that it’s pushing it apart, into small enough parts that it can safely pass through the system.

Here, it’s not uncommon for guys to run filters on Cummins 30K+ (twice the change interval) with no water in the fuel. Nothing comes out of the water separator when you drain it except clean diesel.
The reasoning for it dispersing water in the system is basically as a preventive measure. IF you manage to get some water, it’s capable of dealing with it without allowing damage.

I think the white paper for this specifies a mid-size fleet they tested with. A decent number of trucks. Split into treated and not - and that’s how they got their mileage improvements and some other numbers.

My primary concerns are improved Cetane (as this definitely reduces particulate emissions in the real world) and improved Lubricity - 460 um wear scar on the test is the government spec for fuel. Most manufacturers want 430 or better. Nearly every diesel supplement out there nets sub 400...
It’s for that reason I strongly advise the use of a quality supplement. Cummins tried to build to the fuel available, and even they endorse Diesel Kleen now, because the fuel is obviously not up to par!
 

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I've been driving a "clean" VW diesel since 2010. Same basic design for the engine. I've only used additives when heading into a colder climate in the winter. Going from North Carolina to nothern Inidania or central Iowa. I want to make sure that I can keep going. I'm approaching 150k miles on my VW and almost 40k on my 17 ED. Use additives if you want but make sure they are made for your engine.
 

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I actually use Opti-lube XPD... i might switch to Diesel Kleen (silver bottle). i was getting a slightly rough idle... very mild. added that stuff, went on a nice long drive (to FL) and now it's smooooooooth.
 

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I've been using diesel kleen in my truck early on. Read about how these engines prefer a higher cetane and the need for additional lubrication for the hpfp.
4oz. per fill up. Price is right and it did help a little with mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Duaine,

Have you read the owner's manual for your truck? If so you will see that FCA says no additive is required. Obviously there are a lot of opinions of fuel additives on this forum and elsewhere. AS best I can find there is no reliable and objective current studies showing additives are advantageous to the life of modern diesel engines using good quality modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.

Lots of people like them and have a favorite one they use. My view is their main purpose is to enrich the manufacturer. The one exception in my mind are antigelling additives in the fall is you have summer fuel and end up in a cold snap.

Enjoy your truck
Duaine,

Have you read the owner's manual for your truck? If so you will see that FCA says no additive is required. Obviously there are a lot of opinions of fuel additives on this forum and elsewhere. AS best I can find there is no reliable and objective current studies showing additives are advantageous to the life of modern diesel engines using good quality modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.

Lots of people like them and have a favorite one they use. My view is their main purpose is to enrich the manufacturer. The one exception in my mind are antigelling additives in the fall is you have summer fuel and end up in a cold snap.

Enjoy your truck
Thank you!! for the input. I can see where these products can be a gimmick. I do remember though, the winter is a tough time on diesels, so I believe that I will leave the additives alone until the winter months. Thank you again!
 

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It is my understanding that the best practice for water in diesel is to ensure it gets taken care of by the fuel filter/water separator and if you use an additive it should be a "deemulsifier" that promotes the separation of the water and fuel so the filter/water separator can deal with it.
^^^ this
Not only does water in the fuel lower the energy content but reduces the lubricity
If mixing the water with diesel fuel was a good idea then why would manufacturers still put in water separators
 

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Yes.
There shouldn’t be any.
When it happens, the larger particles will be separated by the filter.
Alcohol mixes with water.
The mode of operation of Red Line appears to be dispersant. Meaning that it’s pushing it apart, into small enough parts that it can safely pass through the system.

Here, it’s not uncommon for guys to run filters on Cummins 30K+ (twice the change interval) with no water in the fuel. Nothing comes out of the water separator when you drain it except clean diesel.
The reasoning for it dispersing water in the system is basically as a preventive measure. IF you manage to get some water, it’s capable of dealing with it without allowing damage.

I think the white paper for this specifies a mid-size fleet they tested with. A decent number of trucks. Split into treated and not - and that’s how they got their mileage improvements and some other numbers.

My primary concerns are improved Cetane (as this definitely reduces particulate emissions in the real world) and improved Lubricity - 460 um wear scar on the test is the government spec for fuel. Most manufacturers want 430 or better. Nearly every diesel supplement out there nets sub 400...
It’s for that reason I strongly advise the use of a quality supplement. Cummins tried to build to the fuel available, and even they endorse Diesel Kleen now, because the fuel is obviously not up to par!
Thanks again for the thorough reply. I agree that added Cetane is a good thing and cannot do any harm but personally cannot comment on the financial benefit of it. I do know that when I had my 2014 ecodiesel with proper winter diesel in it it would start at minus 20 deg F temps easily without being plugged in.

Ref water in the fuel, yes there shouldn't be any but in my experience there is usually some. Either due to condensation in the tank or a a few drops or snow or ice crystals on the nozzle of the pump that find their way into the fuel when refueling. I do not put on rubber gloves and have a rag to wipe down the nozzle when refueling in the rain or in winter. In the fuel systems of the 8 diesel engines I now have and nine when I had my Ecodiesel I always find a bit of water in the filter/separator when I drain it. I am in Crash's camp on the water in fuel issue. I think any additive should de-emulsify and promote separation of the water and fuel so the it can easily be separated. Mixing it with the fuel to burn it seems like a bad idea to me, especially if one is concerned with the lubricity in the fuel.

I have no data and no proof for my views other than an engineering degree and career coupled with a bit of common sense. I think it is technically better to separate it and get rid of it than to mix it with the fuel and burn it. That said, my previous comments about good enough apply here too. It may indeed be good enough to mix it in with the fuel and burn it.

All the best,

All the best,
 
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