Without talking Hemi/Diesel, but more so 1500/2500 based on what you have listed a 1500 is what you need and a 2500/3500 would be over kill. So with that said 1500 hemi/diesel is on the plate. You have made all the valuable points for owning a diesel over a hemi/gasser. So now you are here asking current 1500/diesel owners what they think. Most all of us will say go for it and don't look back.

I only drive mine on Tuesday and Wednesday if the weather is good for my motorcycle. I am not in the cold weather you have, but I would think 1 day or 5 days would have the same effect. The longevity and resale is also a win over the Hemi.

I say do it.

 

I am a pilot as well .
I am hoping my Eco D will be good without plug in to -15F as well.
so far the coldest is -2 C -- about 28 F

I got over 36,000 km s on mine since June and content.
Drivers seat foam seems to be failing - dealer not done squat about it...........yet. bought a cushion as Walmart 2 days ago and problem solved
must be seat !

 

I wouldn't worry about the DEF either. It will freeze when the temp gets low enough, but the DEF system is designed to be able to freeze and have the truck still start. Once the truck is started the DEF tank heater kicks in and thaws it out.

Does the DEF separate if it freezes? I suppose once it thaws it will mix again from being sloshed around.

 

Certainly not an expert, but I would assume that sitting for that length of time would have the same impact - diesel or gas. The cold start is a good question - so far I have been impressed with how it starts in the morning. We have had a couple of nights now at 0 or -1 celcius - have not noticed anything out of the ordinary. But the true cold has not arrived yet so no feedback on that.

Maybe take a look at forums for the Grand Cherokee Diesel - it is the same Engine/Transmission config. It has also been in use a little longer. I know there were some cold weather posts that I read about, before I took the plunge. From what I saw it is nothing to worry about - even if the Diesel is not plugged in.

 

Cold is your diesel worst enemy. Today, as long as your battery, glowing plugs, your engine are in good conditions and you have an "arctic" fuel, starting of the diesel at cold temperatures not much different from gas engine. Don't forget that it's not just the fuel-engine train you will be worrying, DEF can freeze at low temperatures. As I understand, complete DEF system is insulated and heat traced. Therefore this is additional load on your battery. From my experience, mostly with VW and Mercedes (10+ years) old engines, diesel is much more "delicate" compare to gas engines. I never, until the compression in your engine goes really down, had any issues with diesel at temperatures around -5 to -8 C (23 to 17 F). When used to see real issues was when the temperatures are dipping below -15 C (5 F), and these temperatures have to be holding for 24 + hours, few morning hours with -15 C (5 F) typically do not affect your cold start. From what I heard, new diesels are much more robust for the cold temperatures. And, for us Canadian users, there is always an option of something like http://www.espar.com/business-units/fuel-operated-heaters/product-selection/coolant-heaters.html if you want to make sure that the engine will start in 99.9% of a time. I would also agree that at 12K per year diesel probably is not justifiable.

 

Phooey. I say you should buy what you want. Oh so many diesel owners, like me, would ONLY own a diesel. Gas engines in a pickup are a joke for torque, fuel mileage and overall operation satisfaction. They have a certain "style" that appeals to oh so many. Maybe it's a kinship with all the many REAL trucks carrying the freight.

If you have no real emotional feel for a diesel it's still a big "phooey". Both will work but a diesel is still a diesel. That's a good and maybe the only thing for so many.

You're a pilot. You ain't broke. Go for it and live on the "wild side" for a change. You don't like it, trade it out later.

 

Checking out the VW forums is good advice. On the diesel end I have to think a can of fuel stabilizer will get you through the 5 days in MI. Also, I believe the fuel filter on the ED has a heating element in it. The DEF worries me, but I don't know enough about the heating/insulation system on the ED DEF tank to have an educated opinion.

On this site everyone is going to be positive on the Diesel and it is a really fun engine, but the Hemi is a great engine too. At 12k miles per year you don't have to have a diesel economically, it's really are you interested to geek out on it like everyone else on the site. As a pilot my sense is you have a few things you geek out on.

 

I cant speak for this particular truck but I have had my diesel gel in my 02 in the Texas Hill Country after sitting for 3 days. Somehow the cord got unplugged.. The problem is starting it while the fuel is in gel form. It caused quite the mess in the fuel system. You asked for opinions so I will give you mine. At 12k a year you will not see much of any financial savings. In 6 years there will still be plenty of life and resale on the truck. With the big drop in unleaded prices, this margin is greatly decreased. Buying the diesel over the Hemi will be more of you just prefer it which is still an honest choice. In your situation I would stick to gas. No worries on the fuel, no worries on the DEF, better payload, little better oomph, less chance for the odd first year production problems.

 

blue,

First off, Welcome! Thanks for joining.

Here are some of my thoughts. For me I typically buy vehicles out right that I can afford and run them for many years. This was the first brand new vehicle my wife and I were going to buy and have payments on so the idea was we are going to get exactly what we need/want get it paid off and keep it for a minimum of 10 years. With that we do road trips to visit family and I am a avid snowmobilier and wanted something that pulled my trailer or my buddies trailers better than the '01 Chevy I currently had. We also will put on around 12,000 miles per year on the truck.

All that said, we are in what is probably a fairly similar situation (minus the airline pilot part).

So, you will definitely like the mileage when on road trips and also mileage/performance while doing your average towing with the diesel. However, if you only do either of those things a couple times a year you will also like the Hemi and the mileage difference isn't going to break the bank in comparison.

So far I absolutely love our diesel and it will do exactly what I was looking for. I wanted something that is going to give better mileage and towing performance over the current '01 5.3l gas Chevy that I had and that was going to last a long time. Either the Hemi or the diesel would provide that for us, but I felt that with the diesel we would be able to tow our typical things with less effort. If the operating cost of the diesel was a wash with the Hemi but I could cruise down the highway pulling a snowmobile trailer more comfortably (ie, lower RPM, less shifting, less engine/exhaust noise) the additional cost for the diesel was completely worth it to me. If I got better mileage, longer life or more resale value that was all icing on the cake.

As for diesel vs. gas sitting in cold temps for multiple days. The first thing would be the battery. It doesn't really matter gas vs. diesel if you have a low/bad battery it will be more difficult or have a higher chance of not starting. I don't know the exact in rush current draw specs that are needed for the gas vs. the diesel but with the modern diesels now they are running a similar weight synthetic oil as a gas. So there is less of an issue of trying to turn over thick cold oil of a diesel 10-15 years ago.

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the cold startability of it after sitting (as long as you have a proper winter blend fuel in the tank). When you are home I would maybe just be throwing a trickle charger on the battery from time to time before your next week of work just to make sure you have a good solid charge on the battery before it sits.

So I guess overall the explanation I am walking through is that... for us because we plan on keeping it for a long time (have many years to maximize fuel economy) and wanted something that when used for hauling/towing is going to perform well and be less taxing on the engine and operator... it lead us to go for the diesel. For me, if I were only planning on keeping it for 5 years or less or didn't really ever tow or haul anything and really just drove it as a car I probably would have gone for the Hemi.

All of the other things that I love about our RAM are things that you would have (depending on trim level) anyway gas or diesel.

Kind of long winded, but hopefully that kind of walks you through some of the things that I thought through when we were looking at making our purchase.

Good luck... no matter which engine you decide to go with I think you will be happy, so there isn't really a wrong choice! In the end you need to be happy with it and want to have something that puts a smile on your face every time you drive it.

 

I wouldn't worry about the DEF either. It will freeze when the temp gets low enough, but the DEF system is designed to be able to freeze and have the truck still start. Once the truck is started the DEF tank heater kicks in and thaws it out.

 

First, let me commend everyone who replied. What a great, respectful community you've created here!

From what I've read here, I don't think I'm too worried about starting in cold temps. I've read the jeep forums as well, looks like it shouldn't be too bad, as long as the battery is good and I've got winter blend fuel.

Also, I agree with everyone about the fact that I won't be saving that much money.

I've driven the diesel and the hemi, they are both good motors. What I need to do now is find a diesel and a hemi with the options I want, drive them back to back and make the call.

If I do go with the diesel, I look forward to being a part of this forum. Thanks again to everyone, and if anyone has any other experiences or thoughts to share, let me hear them!

 

I have run diesels for 20 years in northeast Pennsylvania. You will have trouble starting it after it sits. Your area is as cold or colder than where I live and plugging it in is a must on the cold days. I don't have one of these new diesels so I was wondering if they have 2 batteries? If not, that is even worse. Fuel does gel at the low winter temps. I have gotten stranded a few times over the years in extreme cold.

 

YBM & a0m397x,

You guys are absolutely correct. Diesels are more susceptible to cold weather starting issues. I think the point is that as long as people (390blue in this case) are aware and understand the situation they can plan appropriately to deal with the potential situations they may face.

 

The DEF system has a heater as well. The engine is programmed to ignore lack of DEF at startup when its below the DEF freezing point to give time for the heater to get it flowing.

I have never heard of a Diesel (well not a real one) refered to as "delicate". I've never had one fail in my 20 years of ownership. That includes MB, GM (Detroit), Ford (Navistar), and now VM.

VW's have a timing belt and are ultra lightweight duty passenger car motors. They are not built to run the engine block maintainance free for 250k+ miles. Look at the shear number of head repairs on the used market from broken timing belts.

 

Ill never buy another vehicle in with a gas engine again, at least until I can afford a second car as a porche. The extra resale value of diesel makes it a no brainer. The gas savings are mostly profit for you, after paying the oil change cost difference and DEF fluid.

 

Btw...the Grand Cherokee folks reported very few diesel related starting issues last winter. There was a pretty big collective sigh of relief when reports of Northern Jeeps cranked fine below zero.

Issues reported:

1. Early ECU programming had an error preventing Remote Start. A TSB addressed this.

2. In extreme cold (-20°F), the Remote Start failed due to extended cranking time exceeding limits. Fuel starvation from gelling was suspected.

 

The owner's manual says the engine is good to -20 deg F for unassisted start. Ensuring you have winterized non gelling fuel is important but not a problem in areas where the temp falls low enough for jelling to be a problem. The serendipitous problem is the +700 mile range of the tank and if you fill up in warmer climes and end up in colder climes with non winterized fuel. Secondly today's cars with their various security and key fob receivers kill a battery in 2-3 weeks. My 2010 Grand Caravan left me stranded at the airport a few times after 2 weeks parked there. Finally the service manager showed me which fuse/relay to pull to minimize the sitting drain. No problenm thereafter but after a lead acid battery goes dead once its life is severely compromised.

Ensure your battery doesn't go dead and once it is 3+ years old have it checked each fall to ensure it is OK and change it when it isn't. Being stuck with a vehicle that will not start at midnight at an airport is not pleasant. With my Grand Caravan I carried a 2nd battery and jumper cables when I was to be parked longer than 2 weeks to ensure I could start and get home.

Enjoy your ecodiesel

 

I only bought a ram because of the diesel. I would have went ecoboost again before I bought the hemi. I couldn't be happier with my decision!

 

I wouldnt touch the Ecoboost engine if someone was paying me. I also would select the Hemi over every other engine (except the ecodiesel). The hemi is a proven reliable engine.

 

With the Uconnect app you can start and stop your truck every other day to keep the battery charged. Just let it run for 5 mins each time.

 

Good point. Also, it'll shut off after 15 minutes anyways.

 

The 15min auto shut off is good, in case get distracted.

 

Other than some early production ecoboosts in 2011 that had condensation issues they're known for being very reliable, they just get way lower than advertised mpg. Ecoboosts will outperform just about everything out there in the half ton market in balls to the wall testing, they just don't live up to the"eco" part of their name and aren't the best value for what most people use half ton trucks for (daily driving with occasional towing)

 

I loved both ecoboosts that I owned, 2012 f150 and a 2010 Lincoln MKT. Both were tuned and very fun to drive! I made a financial decision to trade in both for one payment and was very interested in the 1/2 ton diesel.


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Just my two cents. One factor that few seems to mention here is $$. The EcoDiesel costs three thousand dollars to start. Then fuel costs averages are roughly 50 cents per gallon more or $13.00 every time you fill up. The DEF fluid which is required runs $12 for 2.5 gallons so $48.00 for ten gallons. The cost for an oil change is also a factor as the Diesel takes 10 quarts and filters cost more too. I am not trying to discourage you just to inform. Granted the EcoDiesels are fabulous at pulling (especially low RPM) and great on gas mileage, but one must weigh all the cost variables and then decide. Most here have opted in favor of the Diesel 1500, but the Hemi can pull everything the EcoDiesel can for less up front. Plus the Hemi has been around for a while and is strong and reliable. The choice too rests on if you travel enough miles and tow sufficient weight to justify the added costs. Also it isn't well known yet but likely that much of the added initial cost for the EcoDiesel can be returned at resale time. Good Luck.

 

I buy DEF at 2.89 a gallon at the truck stop. Paying $12 for 2.5 is silly unless that's your only option. Also DEF costs a fraction of a penny per mile. Diesel does cost more, but you're also going to return 150-200% of the hemi's mileage. Oil changes? Yes, they cost more.. and there is a big premium up front. The cost of the Eco diesel, but more importantly not getting the discounts the hemi's get. At the end of the day, if someone is going to count pennies for DEF, fuel cost difference per gallon, or worry about the oil changes they probably have no business looking at the truck.... Because when they see the upfront price difference they'll probably poop.

 

I did all the cost calculations for the mileage and type of usage that I expect. I only drive 10K miles per year, don't tow anymore and sell at around 100K miles. Based upon that, the Ecodiesel didn't make sense at all. Even so, the choice was easy. The bottom line is that I am enamored by diesels and I made my choice based upon that alone. Sometimes things don't have to make sense...

 

why does everyone always jump to comparing the cheapest gas (unleaded) to diesel cost? do you seriously just run unleaded? you don't actually put in premium? there's no way i put regular in my gas car/trucks - ever. so that's fine, i get it, that comparison sure looks more dramatic. for me, i only ever compare the price of diesel to premium - and right now, where i am in NorCal, diesel is .03/gallon cheaper. combined with the significantly higher mpg of the diesel, be it in the EcoD or the CTD 2500 over the 5.7 or 6.4 hemi, it is not even remotely close to which is more "economical".

drive what you want, buy what you want, enjoy what you have. but at least try and be as "fair" as possible when making these kinds of evaluations.

now if you only ever put in the cheapest unleaded gas in your truck, hey it's your wallet and your truck. for me, no way, never ever ever.

 

I'm with you on that. My Tacoma called for midgrade so in my head when I drive past gas stations that's what I'm comparing the cost of diesel to. Here in Denver it diesel is around 10-15 cents more than midgrade and about even with premium. I love only having to fuel up a couple times a month now with the Eco vs every week in the Tacoma.

 

I've started mine in some temps down around 10'F and it fired right up just a little longer wait before it cranked. I've started my 03 cummins down to -30'f unassisted and it sounded unhappy but it started. If you are truly worried maybe check into stowing a jump box in the truck just in case.