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I haven't seen anything to convince me that given a catastrophic event (engine/trans failure costing $10+k in repairs) that Chrysler wouldn't check the ecu for the software version leading them to find the tune. It seems like a simple check that would take 5 minutes.

Regarding trust in your dealer - If your truck dies half way across the country, will it be towed back to your dealer?
I know this has been argued before, but even with the flash if a catastrophic event happens it's up to FCA to prove that it was the flash that caused the failure. I'm familiar with other folks that have had catastrophic failures with other automotive brands that were denied. The denial centered around not have clear prove of maintenance, like dated receipts. In the USA, if a company denies you a warranty repair based on an aftermarket part being used without proof that the said part caused the failure, then a whole team of ambulance chasing lawyers will be happy to assist you. [MAGNUSON-MOSS ACT]
 

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I know this has been argued before, but even with the flash if a catastrophic event happens it's up to FCA to prove that it was the flash that caused the failure. I'm familiar with other folks that have had catastrophic failures with other automotive brands that were denied. The denial centered around not have clear prove of maintenance, like dated receipts. In the USA, if a company denies you a warranty repair based on an aftermarket part being used without proof that the said part caused the failure, then a whole team of ambulance chasing lawyers will be happy to assist you. [MAGNUSON-MOSS ACT]
Just an FYI

FCA would not have to prove anything other than the vehicle has a tune that alters the emissions or the engine operation of the vehicle.
I may be mistaken but, my understanding is that GDE does alter emissions.
Direct copy and paste from RAM warranty:

"Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
• tampering with the emission systems, or with a part that could affect the emission systems;
• any changes made to your truck that don’t comply with Chrysler;"


Now, the second could be challenged via the Magnuson Moss Act as FCA is definitely painting with a broad brush with that statement.


The Magnuson Moss Act offers protection for consumers to service their own vehicle, have it serviced at the shop of their choosing, use aftermarket parts (providing they meet manufacturers minimum specifications).
Basically this was enacted as Auto manufacturers began to adopt quite a bit of language in their warranty as to give them just about any reason to deny a claim or void a warranty.

It is doubtful that any ambulance chaser would take this type of case pro bono. No money to be made. Even if such a case were to be found in the customer's favor, what additional damages would be awarded? Where does Litigation Larry make his 30% cut?
You can always hire a lawyer and pay $$ to send nasty letters to FCA demanding they fix your tuned truck. I'm sure FCA attorneys will respond citing the EPA Clean Air Act and invite you to file suit.
 

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I would love to make the argument to FCA that the truck will not run WITHOUT the tune. Mine certainly will not.

As far as Magnuson Moss warranty act, it is supported by the Federal Trade Commision and SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association). It is not like you are completely alone, but I also won't deny that it might be an uphill battle for oneself.
Again, we are back to how good is your dealer and will they go to bat for you.
Looking forward to my daughter graduating from law school in 18 months. She owes me....LOL
 

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I haven't seen anything to convince me that given a catastrophic event (engine/trans failure costing $10+k in repairs) that Chrysler wouldn't check the ecu for the software version leading them to find the tune
What about the opposite, have you seen anything to convince you that FCA is checking? Didn't think so. Hasn't been reported anywhere I've seen. Paranoia.
 

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I would love to make the argument to FCA that the truck will not run WITHOUT the tune. Mine certainly will not.

As far as Magnuson Moss warranty act, it is supported by the Federal Trade Commision and SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association). It is not like you are completely alone, but I also won't deny that it might be an uphill battle for oneself.
Again, we are back to how good is your dealer and will they go to bat for you.
Looking forward to my daughter graduating from law school in 18 months. She owes me....LOL
Problem is that the fight begins with the EPA.

1/2 ton truck falls under the same emission regulations as any passenger vehicle.
A truck with a GVWR over 8500 adheres to different standards.

Auto makers recognized many years ago that diesel engines offered power and fuel efficiency and there was certainly a market for this power plant in 1/2 ton trucks (and other passenger vehicles).
Until the EPA can do simple math, platforms such as the Ecodiesel will suffer.

I just don't get the logic. The power platform has the ability to get far greater fuel mileage yet, the EPA chokes the motor, now decreasing fuel economy causing me to burn more fuel.
Burn more fuel.....create negative emissions.

On top of that, choking the motor requires more service and reduces the lifespan of it. This certainly is not a positive to the consumer. Though this is a positive to the manufacturer, providing the vehicle lasts through the warranty period.
 

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Just an FYI

FCA would not have to prove anything other than the vehicle has a tune that alters the emissions or the engine operation of the vehicle.
I may be mistaken but, my understanding is that GDE does alter emissions.
Direct copy and paste from RAM warranty:

"Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
• tampering with the emission systems, or with a part that could affect the emission systems;
• any changes made to your truck that don’t comply with Chrysler;"


Now, the second could be challenged via the Magnuson Moss Act as FCA is definitely painting with a broad brush with that statement.


The Magnuson Moss Act offers protection for consumers to service their own vehicle, have it serviced at the shop of their choosing, use aftermarket parts (providing they meet manufacturers minimum specifications).
Basically this was enacted as Auto manufacturers began to adopt quite a bit of language in their warranty as to give them just about any reason to deny a claim or void a warranty.

It is doubtful that any ambulance chaser would take this type of case pro bono. No money to be made. Even if such a case were to be found in the customer's favor, what additional damages would be awarded? Where does Litigation Larry make his 30% cut?
You can always hire a lawyer and pay $$ to send nasty letters to FCA demanding they fix your tuned truck. I'm sure FCA attorneys will respond citing the EPA Clean Air Act and invite you to file suit.
mpj220, good post!

The reason I put in (as you phrased) Litigation Larry [which I really like]; after all the "run around" you would get from FCA, a case could be made for lost of wages due to lost of time dealing with FCA. But of course this is all hypothetical.
I would still argue that MM states that the manufacture must prove that the tune caused the damage. FCA can state what ever they want in the warranty, but if part of the statement isn't legal, a jury would decide.
 

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Thanks for all the input, this is a great forum and started using it one year prior to purchaging my first new wehicle at age 48.
I bought a 2015 4x2 Ecodiesel longhorn and knew that this was going to be my only new vehicle and felt the need to protect myself financially to the best of my ability and this is why I installed the GDE tune at 16,000 miles. Research of product convinced me that this tune / product will reduce the carbon buildup on especially inlet valves and significant reduce the oil contamination normally associated with the function of EGR as small amount of particular matters in the recirculating gas will pass through the piston rings during operation. The cleaner running internal of engine was confirmed as the oil dipstick is now showing clean oil even after 3000 miles in use. Another reason for installing the GDE ECU was that DPF regenerations will become less frequent and thereby theoretically increasing the life span of the expensive DPF unit designed for x amount of regenerations. Not sure how frequent the the regenerations took place before the GDE installation but it has over the 70,000 miles in service been regenerating every 700 to 750 miles. I do feel somehow environmentally guilty as the Nox emission will be slightly above the regulating limit but still having a fully functioning DPF unit and no PM makes me feel good in that regards, especially when observing how every / most country south of the border continues to visually pollute our air. This was my primary reason for installation and beside this I considered following a bonus with increasing MPG of approximately 10% or 2-3 MPG, slightly higher peak power, wider power / torque curve and off the line engine respond. On the negative side, I consider a slightly higher warm up period as the operating EGR will have the hot exhaust gas going through the EGR cooler and thereby heating the engine cooling water quicker. I did counter act by installing a block heater ( just the cable as heating element is installed in all ED engine blocks) and uses it for the few cold nights here in Texas. For the MPG, removing my trailer towing, I have been averaging 29 MPG for the last 70,000 miles with no issues with truck or tune. Once again thanks for all the inputs and hope to continue my trouble free operation.
 

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Just an FYI

FCA would not have to prove anything other than the vehicle has a tune that alters the emissions or the engine operation of the vehicle.
I may be mistaken but, my understanding is that GDE does alter emissions.
Direct copy and paste from RAM warranty:

"Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
• tampering with the emission systems, or with a part that could affect the emission systems;
• any changes made to your truck that don’t comply with Chrysler;"


Now, the second could be challenged via the Magnuson Moss Act as FCA is definitely painting with a broad brush with that statement.


The Magnuson Moss Act offers protection for consumers to service their own vehicle, have it serviced at the shop of their choosing, use aftermarket parts (providing they meet manufacturers minimum specifications).
Basically this was enacted as Auto manufacturers began to adopt quite a bit of language in their warranty as to give them just about any reason to deny a claim or void a warranty.

It is doubtful that any ambulance chaser would take this type of case pro bono. No money to be made. Even if such a case were to be found in the customer's favor, what additional damages would be awarded? Where does Litigation Larry make his 30% cut?
You can always hire a lawyer and pay $$ to send nasty letters to FCA demanding they fix your tuned truck. I'm sure FCA attorneys will respond citing the EPA Clean Air Act and invite you to file suit.
DING DING DING we have a winner! FCA or any manufacture only needs to prove that the tune altered the manufactures performance specs and you are done. The manufactures have Attorneys on staff just for this and will tie you up for years in court. Do you have the money for that? Do you think an Attorney is going to take on your case for free or on contention? The answer to these are most likely no. If you can't afford to replace an engine or trans than you might want to hold off on the tune. Me I'm not worried as the benefits far out weigh the costs in the long run. We have yet to hear of any trucks with the GDE tune having a blown engine or trans. We have seen none tuned trucks with blown engines so if you are planing to keep your truck past the warranty period then I would look hard at getting the tune as early in the trucks life as possible.
 

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FCA or any manufacture only needs to prove that the tune altered the manufactures performance specs and you are done..
I thought the burden of proof was the modification had to have a causal effect on the failed part, per the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. I agree with the rest of your post, a corporation can easily wear down the little guy in court.
 

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DING DING DING we have a winner! FCA or any manufacture only needs to prove that the tune altered the manufactures performance specs and you are done. The manufactures have Attorneys on staff just for this and will tie you up for years in court. Do you have the money for that? Do you think an Attorney is going to take on your case for free or on contention? The answer to these are most likely no. If you can't afford to replace an engine or trans than you might want to hold off on the tune. Me I'm not worried as the benefits far out weigh the costs in the long run. We have yet to hear of any trucks with the GDE tune having a blown engine or trans. We have seen none tuned trucks with blown engines so if you are planing to keep your truck past the warranty period then I would look hard at getting the tune as early in the trucks life as possible.
Just to clarify there has been gde tuned trucks with catastrophic failures a tune is not the fix all some think it is hardware can and still well fail. But I definitely agree tuning would be extremely hard to prove it didn’t have something to due with the failure and fca well absolutely use that against you if they find out. The magnuson moss was mainly for service and repairs not performance parts.
 

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Tuned at 92,000 miles. Before tune best I got 25.2. After tune best is 29.9. Not towing, just driving down the highway.

Why did I get the tune? Truck started throwing continuous codes and FCA could not figure it out. $9200 in parts. Still would not run so only fix was GDE tune. Have 2500 miles or so on it since and it has been running great. Dealer paid for tune so it was a great deal for me!

Pre tune...
Crappy throttle response.
Continuous error codes.
Truck would only go into limp mode.
2.5 months of downtime

After tune...
Can actually drive the truck.
Better mileage by far, but I don't care about that so much. I do care if the truck runs however.
The dealer paid for it???
 

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Hey Everyone,

I'm looking for a few users of GDE to provide some basic info and data on their fuel economy results. Ultimately I'm hoping to gather up some real world data to influence my decision on buying the GDE tune and report back to the forum so others can make a more informed decision.

If you are a GDE user I'm looking for the following items.

1. Miles on your truck before GDE tune installed.
2. Miles on your truck since GDE tune installed.
3. Improvement in MPG since GDE tune installed (this can be calculated or educated guess). If calculated, what was your before and after MPG?
4. Yes/No, have you used Fuelly or some other method to track MPG before and after the tune?
5. If yes, how many pre and post GDE fuel ups have you had?

Thanks in advance for everyone's responses. I'll do a deep dive into this and report back my findings ASAP. I know there's a lot of information out there regarding fuel economy related to the GDE tune, but I want to take the opportunity to compile some of this data in one thread.

Kkaldor

Admin/Mods, I know this probably should be in the Tuner forum, but I was thinking it would get more views and responses here. Please move if necessary.
1. I added the GDE tune installed at 46,480.
2. I'm over 115,000 miles, so like, 68,500.
3. I was getting between 22 to 27 MPG without GDE Tune. After installing it, I never saw any difference in MPG.
4. My Fuelly is on my siggy below.
5. Pre GDE are fillups 1-51. I'm up to 207 fill-ups. There are some fill-ups between 51 and 207 without GDE. (Notes denote changes.)


I'm down to 24 average now. My MPGs have gone down steadily since I hit 60k. I don't know why, but it's really been disappointing. I removed the GDE tune around 70k for about 10k, and saw no change in MPG. What I found was the turbo lag was the biggest deal. I considered selling my GDE tuned chip, but the turbo lag was horrible, so I decided to keep it and put it back on the truck. However, I do not have any MPG improvements from the GDE tune.
 

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I know I could take everyone’s word for it, but I’m an engineer and I like data. Case in point if I just looked at what sourdo is getting, I would think I should be getting 30mpg all day long. Well I can baby the crap out of my truck and never have a prayer to get that high. I just don’t know how it’s possible. Maybe he got “one of the good ones”. I’m running 23-24 mpg occasionally higher or lower. I know it all depends on driving habits, I’d love to know those of the people getting upwards of 30 mpg.

I do realize there are many other benefits to GDE tunes and they are very valuable as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have to point out that those mpg's were EVIC and highly suspect for accuracy. However, doing the same trip, my home to Anchorage, 65 mpg, calm day, cruise control, without gde, 30 mpg, with gde, 33 mpg. But the reality very well could be something different as my EVIC and hand calculations never jive. My average summer mpg running around town mileage is about 26 mpg. In the winter now it's been running around the 22.5 the last two fill ups. Those are hand calculated.

Just saying, under perfect conditions and a light foot, I can get great mileage. But as soon as we hit town, that mileage dropped to 27 pretty fast in stop and go traffic. Wind and speed will change things too.
 
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