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Discussion Starter #1
We have been developing a tune for the Ram ecodiesel over the last 9 months now. The tune has been progressing very well and is nearing completion. We would like to get feedback from Ram owners on any dislikes they have with the stock programming or issues they have with their vehicles.

Our test vehicle is a 2014 Ram crew cab with 3.92 axle and 4WD. This configuration is worst case for weight and fuel economy and makes a good test rig. Thus far we are achieving a solid 3-5mpg gain over stock on average an even higher on steady state driving. The turbo lag is significantly reduced and the 0-60 mph is reduced by about 1.5 seconds. We are scheduling a chassis rolls test to plot the power and torque curves next week.

Even with 0 F ambient temps in Michigan we are realizing 26mpg on the highway with the tune. A test with the stock calibration resulted in 19 mpg on the same roads.

Keep in mind this is a full engine ecm tune and not a plug in chip. We are not fans of the chips as they only fake out the fuel pressure sensor and boost pressure sensor readings. Chips typically do nothing for fuel economy and amping up injector duration leads to more soot production and more frequent regeneration of the dpf.

With our ecm tune, the dpf regens less often as there is less soot developed from a cleaner combustion. This also helps fuel economy and lessens the strain on the exhaust system in general. Our goal is to have the tune ready for release by the May timeframe with a price point under $800.

We look forward to hearing any and all requests from Ram customers on what features they would like to have in a custom tune. Thanks, Green Diesel Engineering Support Team
 

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Sounds great! Can't wait to hear more about it. I have never done any ecm tunes and know very little about them. What's involved with the installation?
I'm assuming this will void any and all existing warranties?
 

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I'll be very interested in one of these, but will wait for warranty to be closer to the end unless it's proven its not an issue to reflash in the case of catastrophic failure. Have you been working on a def/dpf delete to compliment a tune? I think that would have a lot of us lining up to say "take my money!"


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Discussion Starter #6
The tuning process will entail reading the stock tune using a handheld programmer through the OBD port, emailing it to us, we provide a tuned file that is loaded on the programmer and then flashed to the vehicle. The flash tool holds the stock and GDE tunes. We HIGHLY recommend flashing it back to stock before a dealer visit as they could overwrite it with one of their many service releases. If the dealer overwrites the tune (if you did not flash it back to stock) it will render the tool useless and not advisable. The tune is undetectable by a dealer, but they can still easily overwrite it.

We have no intention of doing a dpf delete tune as this invites scrutiny and other companies have been fined for this sort of thing. Most dpf deletes nowadays are coming out of Canada for legal protection on the big trucks. Reducing the soot loading into the dpf will help extend its service life and maximize fuel economy gains. The gains in fuel economy from a dpf delete are in the 2-3% range and just not enough to justify the expense or trouble.
 

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My curiousity is what will happen when the dealer overwrites the current program in the truck for some sort of update that may happen in the future. I know with other handheld units for different vehicles, if the dealer flashed the PCM you were screwed from then on out. Will this be the case with your unit? I like what I have seen in the past from your company and will most likely be a customer of yours when the flashes come out :)

Mike
 

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The tuning process will entail reading the stock tune using a handheld programmer through the OBD port, emailing it to us, we provide a tuned file that is loaded on the programmer and then flashed to the vehicle. The flash tool holds the stock and GDE tunes. We HIGHLY recommend flashing it back to stock before a dealer visit as they could overwrite it with one of their many service releases. If the dealer overwrites the tune (if you did not flash it back to stock) it will render the tool useless and not advisable. The tune is undetectable by a dealer, but they can still easily overwrite it.

We have no intention of doing a dpf delete tune as this invites scrutiny and other companies have been fined for this sort of thing. Most dpf deletes nowadays are coming out of Canada for legal protection on the big trucks. Reducing the soot loading into the dpf will help extend its service life and maximize fuel economy gains. The gains in fuel economy from a dpf delete are in the 2-3% range and just not enough to justify the expense or trouble.

I understand. Similar to what COBB does for a Subaru. Do you plan on offering different tunes? Example, max hp/tq tune or max mpg tune.

Your approach is the one I like the best and assuming it's stable and easy to flash for service, I'm very interested.
 

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Thus far we are achieving a solid 3-5mpg gain over stock on average
Even with 0 F ambient temps in Michigan we are realizing 26mpg on the highway with the tune.
I have the same truck - 4x4 Quad Cab, 3.92, Limited = Heavy and depending on speeds, I EASILY see 26mpg on the freeway (mostly better), and I have never had a freeway tank at 19mpg unless I was towing.

With the OEM's every last nth degree of fuel economy mindset to starve off Ford and others from taking the MPG title, I fail to see where there's anything on the table. Regarding performance, yes, I can see where more boost and even more boost sooner may be possible - but it only means that your standards for what is safe in the long term differs from what the Ram engineers are thinking.

With our ecm tune, the dpf regens less often as there is less soot developed from a cleaner combustion.
Wow, now that line must not have been very hard to type out..... sure would like to see you prove it. Well, you said it so why don't you go ahead and share with us any shred of evidence that you have collected that would led you to be able to make such a statement. Until then, I say BS!
 

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I can believe more power, as I have used tuners in the past with good increases. What I would like to hear is any thoughts that you may have regarding reliability, the tendency to throw codes, as well as longevity. It occurs to me that any increase in power equates to higher combustion pressures and therefore increased stress on engine components. More stress equals more wear, resulting in reduced longevity. Perhaps this is the price some will pay for increased performance...
 

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The tune is undetectable by a dealer, but they can still easily overwrite it.
Really? These increasingly popular engine management modifications has cost OEMs literally millions of dollars over the past several years. Ask Subaru, Mitsubishi, Ford and others about this. The new service protocol for many of these brands where an owner is complaining of an engine problem is to first hook these up their diagnostics in an effort to check for modified engine management software. When it is detected, bye-bye warranty and forget taking your car to another dealership because your car is now black-flagged in their national database. I honestly don't think ANY of the companies providing engine management software upgrades would make the claim that their mods are undetectable - this is a HUGE topic across multiple car forums throughout the internet. The assertion quoted here is a BIG statement. If true, you've managed to do something that no one else has been able to do. Kind of black and white here - either you're a lot smarter than everyone else or you are naïve. I have no idea which one is true.
 

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I'm wondering if it can be guaranteed that the dealer won't be able to see its been on there or are we running on some hope here?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My curiousity is what will happen when the dealer overwrites the current program in the truck for some sort of update that may happen in the future. I know with other handheld units for different vehicles, if the dealer flashed the PCM you were screwed from then on out. Will this be the case with your unit? I like what I have seen in the past from your company and will most likely be a customer of yours when the flashes come out :)

Mike
If you flash the stock tune back in the vehicle before a dealer visit and they update with a TSB (technical service bulletin). After getting the vehicle back, you will erase the flash tool and make a new read based on new ecm code and we would apply the tune to the new code. The only time the flash tool is locked is if you forget to flash it back to stock when going to a dealer and they flash in an update.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I can believe more power, as I have used tuners in the past with good increases. What I would like to hear is any thoughts that you may have regarding reliability, the tendency to throw codes, as well as longevity. It occurs to me that any increase in power equates to higher combustion pressures and therefore increased stress on engine components. More stress equals more wear, resulting in reduced longevity. Perhaps this is the price some will pay for increased performance...
We have been running various versions our our tune for almost a year now and no codes to date...for anything. The base engine has been tested at VM Motori with output just over 300 hp and the bottom end held up well. We will not be pushing it that hard. They used the Maserati turbo on the 3.0l engine to reach that power. The turbo on the Ram is a different frame size than the Maserati 3.0l diesel application. The Ram eco diesel is flow limited on the turbo and that limits the peak output.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have the same truck - 4x4 Quad Cab, 3.92, Limited = Heavy and depending on speeds, I EASILY see 26mpg on the freeway (mostly better), and I have never had a freeway tank at 19mpg unless I was towing.

With the OEM's every last nth degree of fuel economy mindset to starve off Ford and others from taking the MPG title, I fail to see where there's anything on the table. Regarding performance, yes, I can see where more boost and even more boost sooner may be possible - but it only means that your standards for what is safe in the long term differs from what the Ram engineers are thinking.



Wow, now that line must not have been very hard to type out..... sure would like to see you prove it. Well, you said it so why don't you go ahead and share with us any shred of evidence that you have collected that would led you to be able to make such a statement. Until then, I say BS!

You are in a warm climate and thus have better fuel economy vs. Michigan. We tested during the summer as well and were able to achieve 30+mpg regularly. The cold temps and winter fuel here negatively effect FE by about 15% in general.

FYI, there is always something on the table when it comes to tuning. Maybe I am naive, but if the Ram engineers had it all worked out there would not be so many field issues with the Ram and the new Grand Cherokee.

Before we release the tune in the field, all our data and testing result will be posted on our website. Since you called bs out of the blue, I will tell you how we test this: We installed a dpf delete pipe and measured the opacity with a smokemeter on the stock tune and directly compared that with our tune.

This is not our first rodeo. We have several different vehicle applications in the field (Jeep Liberty CRD, Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD, Merecedes ML320 CDI, Mercedes Sprinters, and several VW vehicles). We are the fuel economy leader on all those applications without a doubt.
 

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GDE

Can you reply to my previous question about there being a trace left in the ecm? Since I'm in a cold climate I'm all ears to what you're saying here about fuel efficiency.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
When you flash it back to stock before visiting a dealer they will only see the stock tune, so no trace. Warm or cold climate, the fuel economy is up the same percentage.

It would be nice if some folks had a look inside their intake manifold to see what is building up in there (soot and oil mixed together is bad). The intake on our test rig is clean, the soot formation is massively reduced.

Look back in time to the Jeep Liberty CRD 2.8l VM engine with all the intake clogging issues and rocker arm wearing problem due to soot and dirty oil. The same issue will plague the 3.0l engine with the stock tuning.

Everything we are doing is directionally correct for engine longevity.

A few Ram owners that have done oil analysis have noted a fair amount of oil dilution due to excessive regenerations. Reducing the regen interval will help minimize oil dilution.
 

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Can you confirm that an ecu unlock is not required to flash and the edc17 does not have a flash or write counter that can be used to determine how many times parts of the ecu has been rewritten?
 
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