RAM 1500 Diesel Forum banner

21 - 40 of 63 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,899 Posts
The EcoD might drop 1 mpg being 4X4, the extra weight/rotating mass doesn't effect it as much as you see with a gasser. There is members on here getting verbatim mpgs as this 2WD #s.
seems to me the higher stance and associated reduced aerodynamics and the reduced underbody aerodynamics is the biggest mileage busters for a 4x4. bticbw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,899 Posts
This one: FCA patents a turbo inline-six for global use across brands
Probably the biggest hold up on FCA switching away from the Hemi to this turbo I-6 will be the people that just have to have a V-8 under the hood. Reasons being how it sounds, reliability, nostalgia, etc. Look at the 3.5 Ecoboost as it specs rival the Hemi yet Ford still can't shake the Coyote.
If anything FCA needs to make this turbo I-6 whop the Hemi butt sideways to undo the great marketing of the "Hemi" brand.
Looks like a lovely engine. I would even like it without the Turbo with Pentastar like numbers and the e-torque with a bit bigger battery and motor/generator. Thanks for posting that link Crash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,926 Posts
seems to me the higher stance and associated reduced aerodynamics and the reduced underbody aerodynamics is the biggest mileage busters for a 4x4. bticbw.
Is there a different ride height for the 4x4's vs. 2wd? They all look the same height stock to me. With the way the axles are disengaged on modern 4x4's I see very little difference in the economy between like 2 and 4 wd trucks.

Wind resistance? I mean im sure there is some additional aerodynamic drag difference between tow mirrors and standard, but I think that's got to be getting off in the weeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
If anything FCA needs to make this turbo I-6 whop the Hemi butt sideways to undo the great marketing of the "Hemi" brand.
Seems to me they would follow Ford's recipe and keep the Hemi alongside the turbo sixes to address that part of the population that insists on gasser v8's...at least until they are forced (hopefully never) to retire the V8's. They could also deem any engine they want as a "hemi" assuming the the combustion chambers as really hemispherical. Hell, for that matter they can call anything they want a Hemi since it's more of a marketing term. I'd bet way less than half the buyers of "Hemi's" even know what that means anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
I have kinda the best of both worlds. My ED & the wife’s Durango R/T. The truck gets great mileage and tows well and Mama’s grocery getter gets the job done FAST. Has a Corsa exhaust and cold air intake giving it 400HP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
Is there a different ride height for the 4x4's vs. 2wd? They all look the same height stock to me. With the way the axles are disengaged on modern 4x4's I see very little difference in the economy between like 2 and 4 wd trucks.

Wind resistance? I mean im sure there is some additional aerodynamic drag difference between tow mirrors and standard, but I think that's got to be getting off in the weeds.
My 4x4 has air ride that drops down to Aero mode once you reach approx 60 mph. I notice a much lower stance while passing other non AR equipped Rams on the highway. This may account for better numbers too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,332 Posts
It's a stretch and not real world. 55 mph with a tailwind for both.

The inline 6 is because the Hemi isn't going to make increasingly difficult emissions targets. Burning gases through a turbo makes for cleaner exhaust. Anyways I would rather not have the first few years of that motor.
There are many reasons for the inline 6.
I6 engines are inherently balanced, whereas V8 and V6 engines are not. There is an obvious difference in the smoothness of a I6 engine.
Inline engines use fewer parts and are easier and less costly to manufacturer.
Why 3 Liters?
German scientists settled on 500 cc per cylinder as the idea displacement for internal combustion engines. There are many technical reasons for this.
Why 0.5-Liter Cylinders Will Soon Dominate Automotive-Engine Design
There are many reasons for turbocharging.
For a given horsepower, a turbocharged engine is smaller and usually has less cylinders.
Turbocharged engines can get up to 20% better fuel economy due to their smaller displacement.
Turbocharged engines are usually quieter, as the turbo acts as an additional silencer.
High altitude performance improves with turbocharging, whereas normally aspirated engines lose power at altitude.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines are smaller and lighter.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines burn less gas and generate less carbon dioxide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
Having driven a hemi powered car 400,000 miles. I can say they are bulletproof motors. Would think a twin turbo hemi could be tuned for great economy and insane power. Friend of mine "a geezer" has a Dodge Demon with over 800 hp (supercharged 6.2L) and brags about his mpgs! 28 mpg on a long trip, haha. I would say a V8 is equally as smooth as an inline 6. Also, the V6 Ecodiesel is fairly smooth for a V6 imho. My business partner drives a 2.5L LandRover V6, that motor is not smooth at all. Really don't think turbocharging an inline 6 is going to be much more efficient than a V8 or especially an Ecodiesel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MR. TED

·
Read Only
Joined
·
594 Posts
There are many reasons for the inline 6.
I6 engines are inherently balanced, whereas V8 and V6 engines are not. There is an obvious difference in the smoothness of a I6 engine.
Inline engines use fewer parts and are easier and less costly to manufacturer.
Why 3 Liters?
German scientists settled on 500 cc per cylinder as the idea displacement for internal combustion engines. There are many technical reasons for this.
Why 0.5-Liter Cylinders Will Soon Dominate Automotive-Engine Design
There are many reasons for turbocharging.
For a given horsepower, a turbocharged engine is smaller and usually has less cylinders.
Turbocharged engines can get up to 20% better fuel economy due to their smaller displacement.
Turbocharged engines are usually quieter, as the turbo acts as an additional silencer.
High altitude performance improves with turbocharging, whereas normally aspirated engines lose power at altitude.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines are smaller and lighter.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines burn less gas and generate less carbon dioxide.
It also increases the thermal efficiency of a gas engine, they feed and reburn exhaust gases. BMW engineers have stated (I'm not a BMW fan) that they would have stuck to naturally asperated engine if it wasn't for emissions and fuel economy targets. And yes reburning the gases a second time makes it come out cleaner, gasoline engines have emissions targets too not just diesel. Real world it takes the same BTU to move the vehicle and turbos just run rich if you stop on the accelerator. But on the EPA dyno a turbo motor will get a slightly better rating for their tests. I already did my turbo gas experiment with a Ford and that did not go well, same mileage as the Hemi too. I'll stick with my Hemi for now and might go back to an EcoDiesel Rebel or Cummins someday. Raw deal for service on the 3rd gen at the dealer though.
 

·
Super Moderator
2015 Outdoorsman EcoD CC w/6.4' 4X4
Joined
·
5,083 Posts
Seems to me they would follow Ford's recipe and keep the Hemi alongside the turbo sixes to address that part of the population that insists on gasser v8's...at least until they are forced (hopefully never) to retire the V8's. They could also deem any engine they want as a "hemi" assuming the the combustion chambers as really hemispherical. Hell, for that matter they can call anything they want a Hemi since it's more of a marketing term. I'd bet way less than half the buyers of "Hemi's" even know what that means anyway.
There is a bunch of engines that use hemispherical combustion chambers nowadays. Dodge did a good job of marketing the Hemi brand, like you said most people don't know the the background behind the name.
There will probably always be hold outs for a V-8 thinking they're better even if the I-6 is more powerful, faster and can tow more. It's sorta baffling the number of whiners over not having a column shifter when the ZF 8 spd is a vastly superior transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
I had a 2015 AWD Charger with the Hemi. I averaged 19.2 mpg in over 2 years of ownership. I thought maybe the constant AWD hurt it's mileage, but when I tuned it out (and forced it to go RWD) I still only averaged 20.6 mpg.

Now after 1.5 years in the EcoDiesel in the same driving loop I'm averaging 25.3 mpg. And the truck is obviously bigger, less aerodynamic, and heavier.

The HEMI also took 7 qts of oil during a change, so it wasn't that much cheaper.

The HEMI was fun but it wasn't the greatest. I wonder how an EcoDiesel in a Charger would have turned out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,899 Posts
There are many reasons for the inline 6.
I6 engines are inherently balanced, whereas V8 and V6 engines are not. There is an obvious difference in the smoothness of a I6 engine.
Inline engines use fewer parts and are easier and less costly to manufacturer.
Why 3 Liters?
German scientists settled on 500 cc per cylinder as the idea displacement for internal combustion engines. There are many technical reasons for this.
Why 0.5-Liter Cylinders Will Soon Dominate Automotive-Engine Design
There are many reasons for turbocharging.
For a given horsepower, a turbocharged engine is smaller and usually has less cylinders.
Turbocharged engines can get up to 20% better fuel economy due to their smaller displacement.
Turbocharged engines are usually quieter, as the turbo acts as an additional silencer.
High altitude performance improves with turbocharging, whereas normally aspirated engines lose power at altitude.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines are smaller and lighter.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines burn less gas and generate less carbon dioxide.
Good summary GEne. One small word selection detail. Ref the turbocharging performance at altitude my understanding is that it doesn't degrade up to a certain elevation like a normally aspirated engine does so it is improved over a normally aspirated engine at elevation but it isn't improved performance compared to sea level performance. I expect that is what you mean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,899 Posts
Is there a different ride height for the 4x4's vs. 2wd? They all look the same height stock to me. With the way the axles are disengaged on modern 4x4's I see very little difference in the economy between like 2 and 4 wd trucks.

Wind resistance? I mean im sure there is some additional aerodynamic drag difference between tow mirrors and standard, but I think that's got to be getting off in the weeds.
It turns out you are correct on the height. I did some research on the ram site and found, to my surprise, there ws only a tenth of an inch difference in height of 4x4 vs 2wd. I stand corrected on that issue.

They show an EPA rating of 1 mpg lower for the stock Pentastar 4x4 for both city and highway mileage vs 2wd. I expect that has a realistic basis.

I do agree that the independent front suspension on the 4x4 does make it more streamlined underneath than the old solid front axle system the half tons had for decades. I looked at mine and still think it has more underbody drag than a 2 wd. I have the factory skid plates and they look more aerodynamic than a non skid plated truck, but when it comes to aerodynamics it doesn't always perform like it looks like it should.

The 4 wd is about 300 lbs heavier.

So I guess the mpg difference is a combo of heavier weight, increased underbody drag and increased drive train losses.

Thanks, MAS, for pointing out my error. I guess I was overly influenced by the number of lifted 4x4 trucks I see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
796 Posts
I had a 2015 AWD Charger with the Hemi. I averaged 19.2 mpg in over 2 years of ownership. I thought maybe the constant AWD hurt it's mileage, but when I tuned it out (and forced it to go RWD) I still only averaged 20.6 mpg.

Now after 1.5 years in the EcoDiesel in the same driving loop I'm averaging 25.3 mpg. And the truck is obviously bigger, less aerodynamic, and heavier.

The HEMI also took 7 qts of oil during a change, so it wasn't that much cheaper.

The HEMI was fun but it wasn't the greatest. I wonder how an EcoDiesel in a Charger would have turned out.
A Youtube I follow is putting a Cummins in his Mustang so that'll be interesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
Seems comparing a 2WD ED to 4WD Hemi isn’t a good comparison. The ED would do worse if it were 4WD.
My Gen3 is averaging just shy of 30mpg, with a 50/50 mix of interstate and city (Cleveland area), including drive thru idle time. 4x4.... I carried it out on the road the other day - it would get 31+ on a 70 mph road trip! My last one was at best 29. I have to think this one on a 58 mph extended run would see 35+
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
It turns out you are correct on the height. I did some research on the ram site and found, to my surprise, there ws only a tenth of an inch difference in height of 4x4 vs 2wd. I stand corrected on that issue.

They show an EPA rating of 1 mpg lower for the stock Pentastar 4x4 for both city and highway mileage vs 2wd. I expect that has a realistic basis.

I do agree that the independent front suspension on the 4x4 does make it more streamlined underneath than the old solid front axle system the half tons had for decades. I looked at mine and still think it has more underbody drag than a 2 wd. I have the factory skid plates and they look more aerodynamic than a non skid plated truck, but when it comes to aerodynamics it doesn't always perform like it looks like it should.

The 4 wd is about 300 lbs heavier.

So I guess the mpg difference is a combo of heavier weight, increased underbody drag and increased drive train losses.

Thanks, MAS, for pointing out my error. I guess I was overly influenced by the number of lifted 4x4 trucks I see.
It actually uses a motorized shift fork to disconnect the front axles, to drastically reduce the parasitic losses on the front end under normal driving conditions.
Aero is probably minimally affected as well, from a physical standpoint. The biggest difference is the added weight, and possibly the cooling strategies used because of that. The 4wd would be more prone to opening the shutters to aid cooling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
Hemi engines are decent. I prefer Red Line Oil 5w20 in the 5.7. The lifter issues are extended idle/failure to service properly induced.
Fuel economy is simply keeping off the go-pedal.
The only recurring issues, are the exhaust studs breaking, and premature water pump failures - I chalk that up to the OAT, as the HOAT didn’t really have a lot of early failures. I’d change the coolant every couple of years, and if you start hearing a ticking at startup, go ahead and drop in new gaskets and exhaust bolts/studs.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
594 Posts
There are many reasons for the inline 6.
I6 engines are inherently balanced, whereas V8 and V6 engines are not. There is an obvious difference in the smoothness of a I6 engine.
Inline engines use fewer parts and are easier and less costly to manufacturer.
Why 3 Liters?
German scientists settled on 500 cc per cylinder as the idea displacement for internal combustion engines. There are many technical reasons for this.
Why 0.5-Liter Cylinders Will Soon Dominate Automotive-Engine Design
There are many reasons for turbocharging.
For a given horsepower, a turbocharged engine is smaller and usually has less cylinders.
Turbocharged engines can get up to 20% better fuel economy due to their smaller displacement.
Turbocharged engines are usually quieter, as the turbo acts as an additional silencer.
High altitude performance improves with turbocharging, whereas normally aspirated engines lose power at altitude.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines are smaller and lighter.
For a given horsepower, turbocharged engines burn less gas and generate less carbon dioxide.
V8 have a counterbalanced crank design though. They can be close to as smooth as an inline six. Anyways read up on the info for emissions and the Hemi. FCA isn't going to spend a few hundred million dollars on a new powertrain for their health. They tried a turbo setup on the pentastar, that didn't work and it got scraped, and that's where the inline 6 was developed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,332 Posts
Good summary GEne. One small word selection detail. Ref the turbocharging performance at altitude my understanding is that it doesn't degrade up to a certain elevation like a normally aspirated engine does so it is improved over a normally aspirated engine at elevation but it isn't improved performance compared to sea level performance. I expect that is what you mean.
"Engines require air pressure to burn fuel and generate power. At higher altitudes there is lower air pressure, so regular engines will produce much less power. On the other hand, the performance and power generation of a turbocharged engine actually improves. This is because there is a greater pressure difference between the air pressure ahead of the turbo and the lower pressure at the exhaust. The turbocharger increases the density of air entering the engine to generate more power."
What Are the Benefits of Turbo Engines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
I am really curious why people think that the maintenance on the EcoD is so much more than a gasser. I change my EcoD oil and filter ~10K miles, 10.5 quarts. In gassers I would not go over 5K miles between oil changes, at least 6 quarts per oil change. So isn't that a complete wash as far as cost goes? I use Ecogard oil filters and have, so far, had no issues. Cost is $15 each, or less. However the Mopar filters are ~$35 dollars which isn't that much more since they go 10K miles. I do use the expensive Mopar fuel filters for the obvious reasons. So I only see the filters as a possible extra expenditure. Since I change my own oil and filters, there is no labor up charge on diesel or gasser. We all know that the engine has been problematic and I am taking that out of the maintenance equation because it is not every truck that has those issues, I am speaking to scheduled maintenance only. Please tell how I am seeing this wrong.
Canyon
 
  • Like
Reactions: MR. TED
21 - 40 of 63 Posts
Top