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I am really curious why people think that the maintenance on the EcoD is so much more than a gasser. I change my EcoD oil and filter ~10K miles, 10.5 quarts. In gassers I would not go over 5K miles between oil changes, at least 6 quarts per oil change. So isn't that a complete wash as far as cost goes? I use Ecogard oil filters and have, so far, had no issues. Cost is $15 each, or less. However the Mopar filters are ~$35 dollars which isn't that much more since they go 10K miles. I do use the expensive Mopar fuel filters for the obvious reasons. So I only see the filters as a possible extra expenditure. Since I change my own oil and filters, there is no labor up charge on diesel or gasser. We all know that the engine has been problematic and I am taking that out of the maintenance equation because it is not every truck that has those issues, I am speaking to scheduled maintenance only. Please tell how I am seeing this wrong.
Canyon
In the Ecodiesel case you are following the manufacturer's oil change interval and in the gas case you are ignoring it and changing the oil twice as often for no apparent good technical reason. My 2018 Pacifica and my 2020 PEntastar Longhorn 4x4 both have a 10,000 mile recommended change interval. The two used oil analysis I have had done on the Pacifica both showed the oil in good shape at the 10,000 mile change interval. I only have about 5000 miles on the truck so haven't changed it yet but will do so at 10,000 miles and do a UOA test to see what it shows. I will do another one with the oil I will be using longterm when I do the second change. I am using Amsoil in the Pacifica but bought the new Shell Rotella full sythetic gas truck oil at a real bargain and will use that in the truck for the first 100,000 miles. It will be fun to see how the UOAs differ between the two.

I use WIX filters on the PEntastars and they are less than $5 each if you get them at the annual sale some auto parts stores have or NapaGold with their sale are about the same.

In summary, follow the manufacturers recommendations in both cases and the Ecodiesel will cost at least twice what the gasser will cost if you look at oil cost (suitable full synthetic gas engine oil is usually cheaper than full synthetic diesel engine oil) , oil filter cost, fuel filter cost and air filter cost.


All the best,
 

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"Engines require air pressure to burn fuel and generate power. At higher altitudes there is lower air pressure, so regular engines will produce much less power. On the other hand, the performance and power generation of a turbocharged engine actually improves. This is because there is a greater pressure difference between the air pressure ahead of the turbo and the lower pressure at the exhaust. The turbocharger increases the density of air entering the engine to generate more power."
What Are the Benefits of Turbo Engines?
I am under the impression, but could be wrong, that the turbo control mechanism would not provide boost that increased the effective compression ratio to a greater number at higher altitude than it would at sea level.
 

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I
I am under the impression, but could be wrong, that the turbo control mechanism would not provide boost that increased the effective compression ratio to a greater number at higher altitude than it would at sea level.
The explanation is vague, but I think what it means is that the turbo becomes more efficient with altitude, not that it can provide more boost. Say that the turbo can produce 10 lb of boost at sea level and that it can still provide that same boost at some higher altitude. Then the exhaust pressure should be the same, but the intake pressure is lower than at sea level. That implies greater efficiency at altitude, within the limits of the turbo still being able to produce the same boost. Think of it in terms of control systems... If a plant can produce a given amount of power, its efficiency is directly related to the delta input/output. So the greater the difference between the input and output, for same power out, the higher the efficiency.
 

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I've read these outlandish mpg claims from Hemi owners a few times before, and it's usually when they try to justify their purchase when comparing it to the Eco. I've owned 2 Hemis, both with MDS, and I can tell you they were nowhere near this. It's just not practical or realistic out of a 5.7L v8 gasser.
Bounty Hunter, you are so, so, correct.... I've sold, serviced, owned, many a truck in my life time... the best I ever got out of my 2016 Eco was 33 mpg, but, all the variables were almost perfect, 58mph, humidity really low, no wind, night time driving, 64 degrees, and if I had an on board altimeter, she would have been dropping over the 120 mile drive... now that I own a 2020 Gen III ED, I have no regrets with this power plant... it's even better than the Gen II ED...
 

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Agreed I’ve said this for years. It’s largely that when they do break they are more expensive to repair. But it’s like the oil change scenario or is supposed to be in that it should go longer between repairs / rebuilds as diesels do in general vs gassers.
 

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How long are you expecting the ecodiesel to go without repair? What do you consider repair?

Far more times engines die because of lack of service/abuse/improper service etc. If you properly service and responsible operate either a gas or diesel I think with modern technology and components assuming no design flaws that most modern gas and diesel engines will outlive what we expect out of them. They all have alternators water pumps a/c compressors etc. to fail, but that isn't dependant on the type of fuel they burn. With todays fuel pumps and injectors and egr/dpf/scr etc. I bet more diesels have premature service appointments.
 

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I've read these outlandish mpg claims from Hemi owners a few times before, and it's usually when they try to justify their purchase when comparing it to the Eco. I've owned 2 Hemis, both with MDS, and I can tell you they were nowhere near this. It's just not practical or realistic out of a 5.7L v8 gasser.
My first pickup was a 1994 Chevy 1500 double cab short bed 2wd with a 350 TBI and 4-speed auto and 3.42 gears. Kept it for 17 years and put 265,000 miles on it. I drove it back and forth from college 3 hours for 6 years. IF you drove it easy coasted to stops max speed 65 and 60 was better it would do 18-20 mpg on the hwy regularly. Yes many people pass you and you cant act like the stereotypical teenager, but if you could control yourself it would do well. Yes I also averaged many a tank at 9-10 mpg towing our TT and 11-13 towing our boat and a few tanks at 10 mpg empty when I redlined it from every stop sign/light/etc. If you want to get GOOD fuel mileage you gotta know how to drive and what to do. I could beat the pants off of that with a new mds hemi!
 

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How long are you expecting the ecodiesel to go without repair? What do you consider repair?

Far more times engines die because of lack of service/abuse/improper service etc. If you properly service and responsible operate either a gas or diesel I think with modern technology and components assuming no design flaws that most modern gas and diesel engines will outlive what we expect out of them. They all have alternators water pumps a/c compressors etc. to fail, but that isn't dependant on the type of fuel they burn. With todays fuel pumps and injectors and egr/dpf/scr etc. I bet more diesels have premature service appointments.
In the production world, we term that "preventative maintenance". You shut down the plant and replace or service those things that you asume are going to break soon and then fire everything back up and go on with business. With vehicles, it's really no different. You replace/service things within the guidelines provided by the manufacturer and replace things outside of that when the fail. I have an 05 Corolla with over 200k miles on it and have put very little money into othern than standard maintenance. Same with my 2010 VW diesel with 150k miles. Of course, the preventative maintenance costs on the VW are much higher then on the Toyota. If you treat the vehicle correctly, it should treat you correctly. I now some will come back with the horror stories about the low end engine failures on these trucks, but I've not had major any issues in 36k miles.
 

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I am really curious why people think that the maintenance on the EcoD is so much more than a gasser. I change my EcoD oil and filter ~10K miles, 10.5 quarts. In gassers I would not go over 5K miles between oil changes, at least 6 quarts per oil change. So isn't that a complete wash as far as cost goes? I use Ecogard oil filters and have, so far, had no issues. Cost is $15 each, or less. However the Mopar filters are ~$35 dollars which isn't that much more since they go 10K miles. I do use the expensive Mopar fuel filters for the obvious reasons. So I only see the filters as a possible extra expenditure. Since I change my own oil and filters, there is no labor up charge on diesel or gasser. We all know that the engine has been problematic and I am taking that out of the maintenance equation because it is not every truck that has those issues, I am speaking to scheduled maintenance only. Please tell how I am seeing this wrong.
Canyon
Well I just came from the Pentastar in the 2020 Gladiator to the EcoDiesel in the 2020 Ram 1500.

P-star: 5 quarts full syn oil at Walmart = $14.88, Mopar filter at Walmart = $9. Total = $25 with taxes
EcoDiesel: 8.5 quarts full syn MS-12991 at Walmart = $63, Mopar filter online = $44. Total = $113 with taxes

That's a 352% increase in cost for oil and oil filter...and that's THE least expensive you can possibly do it by the book to protect warranty.

Then... the EcoDiesel also needs fuel filters every other oil change at a cost of somewhere around $60. And it needs DEF every 5,000 miles at a cost of $25. And if you live in a cold climate you need additives during winter....which are all things that the gas P-star and Hemi don't need.

You're looking at a MASSIVE increase in out of pocket costs to do the maintenance at home. If you go to the dealer, the quotes I'm getting are about 90% more expensive.
 

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10.5 quarts full synthetic T6 $50 regular price at Rural King 10k rated filter on rock auto less than $10 with shipping. Mopar fuel filter water separator $41.79 also rock auto every 30k per warranty on my truck. I bought def at the pump usually 2.69 or 21.52 for 8 gallons often lasted 10k with GDE tune. Not a major dollar difference IMO.
 

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I am under the impression, but could be wrong, that the turbo control mechanism would not provide boost that increased the effective compression ratio to a greater number at higher altitude than it would at sea level.
I

The explanation is vague, but I think what it means is that the turbo becomes more efficient with altitude, not that it can provide more boost. Say that the turbo can produce 10 lb of boost at sea level and that it can still provide that same boost at some higher altitude. Then the exhaust pressure should be the same, but the intake pressure is lower than at sea level. That implies greater efficiency at altitude, within the limits of the turbo still being able to produce the same boost. Think of it in terms of control systems... If a plant can produce a given amount of power, its efficiency is directly related to the delta input/output. So the greater the difference between the input and output, for same power out, the higher the efficiency.
The compression ratio would stay the same, and everything else (back pressure, parasitic/form drag, etc) would get less. This is why turbo charging is so effective in aircraft. It is very effective in vehicles as well, just not as dramatic with increases in altitude as aircraft.
 

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The compression ratio would stay the same, and everything else (back pressure, parasitic/form drag, etc) would get less. This is why turbo charging is so effective in aircraft. It is very effective in vehicles as well, just not as dramatic with increases in altitude as aircraft.
Excellent point. The aircraft point is an excellent one and so correct. Thanks for helping me get my head around this.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I am really curious why people think that the maintenance on the EcoD is so much more than a gasser. I change my EcoD oil and filter ~10K miles, 10.5 quarts. In gassers I would not go over 5K miles between oil changes, at least 6 quarts per oil change. So isn't that a complete wash as far as cost goes? I use Ecogard oil filters and have, so far, had no issues. Cost is $15 each, or less. However the Mopar filters are ~$35 dollars which isn't that much more since they go 10K miles. I do use the expensive Mopar fuel filters for the obvious reasons. So I only see the filters as a possible extra expenditure. Since I change my own oil and filters, there is no labor up charge on diesel or gasser. We all know that the engine has been problematic and I am taking that out of the maintenance equation because it is not every truck that has those issues, I am speaking to scheduled maintenance only. Please tell how I am seeing this wrong.
Canyon
Oil filter - $30 versus $10
Fuel filter - $70 versus $0
Oil - $50 versus $30

It's not a wash, but it's not going to drive you broke either. But if you're counting pennies at the pump, you have to also count dollars at the auto parts store.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
I've read these outlandish mpg claims from Hemi owners a few times before, and it's usually when they try to justify their purchase when comparing it to the Eco. I've owned 2 Hemis, both with MDS, and I can tell you they were nowhere near this. It's just not practical or realistic out of a 5.7L v8 gasser.
Sorry bud - I gave you normal driving, highway driving, and my "get behind the 18-wheeler and draft all day" mpg for both trucks. I don't really care that much whether you believe me. I can take two numbers at the pump and divide them. If you choose to believe that a 3.21 geared Hemi with an 8-speed can't get 20 mpg, then that's just willful ignorance. It'll do that all day long. It has nothing to do with the 5.7 - it has everything to do with the gears and transmission and a little bit of common sense and math skills - not sure which of those pieces you were missing.
 

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Oil filter - $30 versus $10
Fuel filter - $70 versus $0
Oil - $50 versus $30

It's not a wash, but it's not going to drive you broke either. But if you're counting pennies at the pump, you have to also count dollars at the auto parts store.
Those prices are close. I pay $15 for a filter and $55 for oil every 10K miles, $35 for a fuel filter every 20K miles. Wouldn't a gasser need an oil change about every 5K miles, at best? That is the mileage I always changed my Silverado's oil at so that would actually double up the cost and put it at, or above, the cost to do my EcoD, minus the fuel filter. I am not convinced that the EcoD takes more money to maintain. The other issue is fuel. Here in Mesa,AZ diesel is, at worst, 10% more than gas and sometimes the same price. I get at least 50% better fuel mileage with the EcoD than I did with my 5.3 Silverado so I believe I am way ahead overall. YMMV
Canyon
 

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So, realistically, I doubt that you will ever make up the premium paid for the engine. But, recommended fuel for a Hemi is 89. That costs more than Diesel does at Costco here. I legitimately get 26.4+ under any non-towing conditions to date. I could get 20-21 highway out of a Hemi similarly equipped. But city mileage would be in the 13-15 range at best. I won’t bother comparing a 3.6 as I actually pull a trailer occasionally!
I’m going to use premium oil either way, be that Red Line or AMSOIL, but the Diesel holds 1.5 more quarts. I would never consider running 10K on a Hemi the way I drive. The camshaft wouldn’t stand a chance. The diesel oil filter costs more. It has fuel filters. And the closest to those expenses you ever get is the spark plug change on the Hemi. The proper plugs are $14/ea, and there’s 16. And getting a tube of the proper lubricant for the boots is another $40. But that’s roughly equal to the cost of fuel filters.
So, basically, I save about 30% on fuel, or a bit more on my daily drive, which is primarily city. I average 20-25K miles a year. Even with that, you’re talking about $600-800 in fuel savings in a year. You’ll spend roughly an added $200 in maintenance costs. So to break even, your talking 9-10 years of ownership, even for me.
Here’s the thing.... my little diesel is smoother, and quieter, than any of the gas options. It’s also as capable as a Hemi for towing, and I very much prefer the way it drives. I didn’t buy it to save money. I bought it because I like it!
 
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