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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well, I really have tried for a long time to convince myself the ED is the way to go. I really want to experience the much improved fuel consumption, especially towing my boat. For most people on here, it probably is the best option. Unfortunately, under my driving conditions, I think another Hemi is the best choice.

I average 12k miles a year and have a mix of much towing that would favor the ED for 6 months out of the year. However, the other 6 months I tow nothing and my daily trips are less than 10 miles one way (work, stores, friends, errands, etc). I would love the improved fuel mileage of the ED when towing longer distances for half of the year, but there are just too many concerns with this DPF that I can't resolve in my mind. I constantly read that the system isn't conducive to repeated short trips, and I'm not going to make a special trip by jumping on the nearest highway every time the warning light comes on just so I can waste 20-30 minutes of time and fuel to clean the PDF. I'd rather sleep at night without worrying about an unpinned hand grenade under my hood. Forums and blogs are loaded with people sharing real world headaches over these systems, often resulting in very expensive repairs. And no, I don't believe in just removing it and rolling coal. I'll wait until the technology improves with the emissions equipment. It'll happen in time. I think it's Mazda that is already working on a diesel requiring none of the DEF, DPF, or other extra emissions equipment. Not that I would buy Mazda! Point being, I'm sure other manufacturers are as well.

There are a number of little things on their own that may not be a big deal such as the turbo cooling time required before turning off (sit in the parking lot for 2-3 minutes to cool off; seriously?), more frequent oil servicing (my HEMI uses once a year/15,000 mi AMSOIL), DEF fluid, avoiding prolonged idling (whatever in hell "prolonged is), premium for diesel fuel, premium for the engine, etc. Each on their own I can live with, but together they add up to inconveniences that some of us new to the diesel world aren't used to.

I can't imagine diesel fuel prices will stay put either. There are 31 clean diesel cars, trucks, and vans available to the public right now. Within the next two years, 19 new vehicles are scheduled to be introduced. Right now diesel sales in the U.S. auto market is about 3%, and it's predicted to jump to 9 or 10% in four short years. That's a potential increase on diesel fuel demand by over 300%! I would imagine that would translate to more pressure on diesel prices and less pressure on regular fuel prices. But, who knows?

Finally, time will tell, but hopefully there will be such a big demand for the ED, that the HEMI will have more discounts and sales incentives associated with it. Wishful thinking?

Dang-nab-it! I haven't talked myself out of the ED completely, but nearly so. One last thing I'd like to do is talk face-to-face with a certified diesel mechanic. I guess I'll be visiting a dealership for that.
 

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good luck with you decision but you are mistaken on a couple of things.
Diesels have longer maintenance intervals not shorter and I'm not sure what you mean by premium diesel? I'm sure some diesel is better than others just like some gas is better than others but I would think unless you are buying from run down station you should be fine.
I know it has been discussed on the other thread but unless I'm working the motor really hard I don't sit and idle every time I come to stop. In the long run would it be better? probably just not my style, I also do not let vehicles warm up much. start it put my seat belt on, adjust the radio and off I go. again I'm not going to say that my method is better than warm up/cool down but I have never had any issues and until I do and it can be directly related to one of the two I will save my time and just go.
 
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And the manual says for daily unloaded driving less than one minute, since I back up a drive and into a garage the wait for the door to open should be fine. We don't run the SuperDuty diesel any longer than it takes to back in the same drive, too wide for the garage though. I have only seen the DPF light come on twice in 3 years now, and it was on maybe 2 minutes on a 35 mph road. I'm assuming he meant the premium for buying diesel over regular gas, but not much of a change for me as I have to run premium now and would run at least mid in a Hemi from tales of poor running from Hemi drivers I've asked.

But that is why every car manufacturer should offer 3-4 engine choices as there really isn't one perfect solution for everyone. For me I think the diesel will be great and I, as my family always has, keep vehicles for a long time so I have more time to make the entry premium back.
 

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The Re-sale is also night and day difference between gas and diesel. Keep that in mind as someone who is considering all the angles.
 

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The diesel is definitely not for everyone. It is something of a fluke that we even have this choice. When I started out looking for a truck my initial focus was on a gas engine because it is common, convenient and a known quantity. It was only after considerable research and talking to people that the diesel started to make sense. The emissions technology is an unfortunate but necessary complication--we would not have any road diesels otherwise--and I am willing to deal with it. Given that the diesel engine has a large initial cost, marginal long-term cost benefit for most drivers, and a bad reputation in the U.S., I doubt it will be a huge hit. I reckon many people will make the same decision '05HEMI has.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Diesels have longer maintenance intervals not shorter and I'm not sure what you mean by premium diesel?
I know it has been discussed on the other thread but unless I'm working the motor really hard I don't sit and idle every time I come to stop. In the long run would it be better? probably.
Yeah, guys, I meant diesel fuel is more expensive. At this time, where I live it's 60 cents more than 87 octane and 40 cents more than 89 octane. And, yes, although the new Hemi can take 87 octane, Ram does recommend 89 octane. That would quicken diesel's return on initial investment. No, I haven't forgotten that diesels traditionally have higher resale value as well.

Nailem, you may be right on the maintenance schedules. I looked at each manual, and they actually aren't too far off from each other. I did notice, though, that the ED's manual states that the "Oil Change Required" message may appear as early as 3,500 miles under conditions of frequent short trips, especially because short trips could cause large amounts of diesel fuel to end up in the engine oil.

From what I've read about the new VERY high-tech emissions systems in general, there is a crap load of potential for problems down the road and not just the DPF.

As far as long term durability of the engine itself goes, I read a comment earlier which made sense to me. It went something like: "One of the reasons diesel engines have been so durable is because of the lubricative (not sure that's a word) properties of diesel fuel. However, the newest diesel fuel standards require ultra low sulfur content which reduces much of that added lubrication benefit. The long term effect on the modern day turbo diesel engine remains to be seen."

Maybe I'm over reacting, and you guys are probably sick and tired of me crying about it, but the real reason I'm not pulling the trigger yet is my BIG worry that the DPF will clog frequently due to short trips in a cold climate and cause bigger problems. Anyone know what they might cost to replace?
 

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Anyone know if you can use synthetic oil (Mobil 1?) in the ED? I can't imagine why not. The Mobil 1 Extended Wear claims 15,000 mile life. I only go 10,000 in my cars - but I just like changing oil.
See this post. Mobile 1 ESP (Emission System Protection) works.
 

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Due to the lack of payload capacity I am looking at the 2500 now. The 1500 EcoDiesel just doesn't have the payload capacity for me to tow my 5500lbs trailer. Here is how the math played out. Payload of a 1500 4x4 Crew with 6'4" box is 1,110lbs. 550 lbs of tongue weight only leaves me 560 lbs. Fiberglass cap about 250 lbs. Now I'm down to only 310 lbs !!. I still have to get in and so does my wife and teenage son and some luggage. There just isn't enough payload. :(

Olli
 

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Yeah, guys, I meant diesel fuel is more expensive. At this time, where I live it's 60 cents more than 87 octane and 40 cents more than 89 octane. And, yes, although the new Hemi can take 87 octane, Ram does recommend 89 octane. That would quicken diesel's return on initial investment. No, I haven't forgotten that diesels traditionally have higher resale value as well.

Nailem, you may be right on the maintenance schedules. I looked at each manual, and they actually aren't too far off from each other. I did notice, though, that the ED's manual states that the "Oil Change Required" message may appear as early as 3,500 miles under conditions of frequent short trips, especially because short trips could cause large amounts of diesel fuel to end up in the engine oil.

From what I've read about the new VERY high-tech emissions systems in general, there is a crap load of potential for problems down the road and not just the DPF.

As far as long term durability of the engine itself goes, I read a comment earlier which made sense to me. It went something like: "One of the reasons diesel engines have been so durable is because of the lubricative (not sure that's a word) properties of diesel fuel. However, the newest diesel fuel standards require ultra low sulfur content which reduces much of that added lubrication benefit. The long term effect on the modern day turbo diesel engine remains to be seen."

Maybe I'm over reacting, and you guys are probably sick and tired of me crying about it, but the real reason I'm not pulling the trigger yet is my BIG worry that the DPF will clog frequently due to short trips in a cold climate and cause bigger problems. Anyone know what they might cost to replace?
05Hemi,

If you travel 12K miles per year, it would be a tough decision. I do about 25-30K per year and I feel that the investment will be worth it but mostly because of the higher resale. I think if I try to sell an ED with 150K miles on it, it will be worth more than a gas engine with same miles.
I too share the concern about the DPF system. a whole lot of complication. My wife's car is a Golf TDI and we've don't have to add any DPF to it so it isn't as big a deal and the mileage is awesome. The biggest reason I'm getting the diesel is because I like the torque combined with high fuel economy. My mileage is mostly highway so I'm expecting a good payback and don't expect issues with the DPF as a result. I tow rather infrequently and only about 4000 lbs. This will be a daily commuter for me so mileage is the # 1 concern.

BTW, the term you are seeking is Lubricity ... and yes modern turbo diesels need additives to increase the lubricity of the fuel given that the new Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel doesn't have enough lubricity.
 

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Olli, I am with you on the payload, and I have grumbled about it so much, that friends like Bigfoot are tired of hearing me gripe.
And short of you and me doing massive cardio and dropping a lot of weight... your math with the tongue weight, and cap, pretty much sum it up.
DIESEL FUEL PRICE
E / Diesel - don't put too much stock in diesel prices being related to percentage of autos or light duty trucks coming to market. The driver will be commercial transportation. 70% of all goods in the US is delivered by Truck, Rail hauls most of the volume / ton per mile. Barge is way down the line. Point is commercial trucks will affect cost of diesel in a classic supply / demand situation, more than the car market.
RESALE
Also on your assumption that the Ram 1500 Diesel will have better resale may be a fair conclusion to draw... I think this truck we will not know what the resale will be like until we see them selling in 2-3 years. We know the resale in the 3/4 ton market IS THERE for diesels..... Take a 2004-2006.5 common rail 5.9.... they hold up to 28,000, and even a model with 200,000 miles plus will only drop to 18-20,000 unless it has been beat up. So for 3/4 ton diesel trucks, yes they do hold their value. The Ram 1500 is a totally new truck, new engine, new model.....

Point is, I don't think you should use as a strong component in your decision making the resale..... it's a consideration.... but bottom line if you like the truck buy it.
Congrats on your decision E-D.

Good info and responses on this thread..... I can see the boys are getting restless......
 
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Yeah, as someone who had forgotten they had even announced it last summer I have positively caught the bug. But my consideration isn't as much payload as potential duration and highway mileage. As the oldest in a 6 kid family we always had 2500s cause even with young kids the weight adds up quick. Luckily I have access to a 350 if I need to move anything large and only tent camp so no trailer. And yeah, there is something to that diesel sound even if I'll have to find something to make it a little better since it sounds pretty quiet on video.
 
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