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Discussion Starter #41
Whooaaaa !! Thin skin or what? I said nothing, absolutely nothing about male or female in my post. Maybe if you're having such a tough time, quit being a victim, sell two of your three (or more) vehicles and get on with life. As far as not knowing what you've been thru' ...... you really have no idea about what any of us have been thru' that we don't whine about.

cheers
Cheers to you too.

I didn't call you a scam. You called me a scam. Be responsible for your messages. I have empathy for what everyone has been through or I wouldn't put in 12 hour days in the hospital. Everyone deserves kindness and support. Including you. Not whining. Just defending against the scam allegation.

I wouldn't change a thing. But that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed when some corporate insanity messes things up. Or when people mis-characterize me in a rude way and completely change the topic of the discussion. That is called a personal attack and it is not very nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Wednesday Update

Well, they seemed to be avoiding my calls at the dealer yesterday so I called this am to say I was going to be dropping the truck off today.

Meanwhile I took my son to the bus, about a 25 mile each way round trip. My poor computer is going up, down and all around. Gas dropping like a rock. Again, could barely get up my hill. I am learning that things are the worst at slow speed and when going up any type of a grade in terms of mileage and crazy computer read outs. I went up a minor grade on the freeway between two towns, about 6 miles, and the range dropped 30 miles.

So I took the truck to the dealers and was afraid to go in because I was really annoyed on the phone on Monday. But they were nice. They have another truck just like mine that has "moved in" and is waiting to figure this same set of symptoms also. Yesterday they repeated his AEM update and it didn't make a difference. They said they are "waiting on corporate."

I basically handed them the key fob and said keep it until it is fixed, I don't want to see it anymore, it just makes me mad. The Mini and I are about to become reacquainted.

I have had a lot of really great advice here and lots of support and thanks from the bottom of my heart. I am keeping a sharp eye on all this information. There are some options. My biggest priorities are great gas mileage, ability to tow, and reasonable driving performance, in that order. I don't need to be first out of the gate! But it would be nice to feel like the engine is humming in a good healthy way and that parts are not being stressed to an early death.

I will update what the dealer does. For now, its time to stop sparring with John Bartley and let all this info to settle in. I hope those considering this recall update are very careful. I would not do it if I could reverse time.

Happy Wednesday
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Update. The dealer confirmed my truck is not right. At least I don't have to argue that point. They have 4 like mine very messed up. One is so bad it lost all power in the middle of an intersection and was a big safety issue. So they are on our side but not much corporate support it seems. One day at a time.
 

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Update. The dealer confirmed my truck is not right. At least I don't have to argue that point. They have 4 like mine very messed up. One is so bad it lost all power in the middle of an intersection and was a big safety issue. So they are on our side but not much corporate support it seems. One day at a time.
If things have gone haywire on the upgrade for this dealer 4 times I would be suspicious of his capabilities or if they are a big dealer and have done many more perhaps it is one technician that did them all wrong.

I have a small dealer that also sells Fords and claims to have only sold 2 Ecodiesels which I believe. Few people special order trucks here and he keeps his lot well stocked with Bighorns and sells from stock. Anyhow, when I called to schedule my update the service advisor said he needed to check if they had everything they needed and if the tech had done the training. He called me back and said they would have the paperwork packge from FCA the following week and we scheduled an appointment. When I got there he said they had done one Ecodiesel and I would be the second. He said they had test driven the first one and it was fine and the owner was happy with it also. Mine was done and a a few other outstanding recalls and a 3way valve warranty replacement so I left the truck and got it the next day and it was fine. Truck holds gears longer before the upshift and therefore it feels peppier to me than before. No change I can discern in the mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Update. The dealer confirmed my truck is not right. At least I don't have to argue that point. They have 4 like mine very messed up. One is so bad it lost all power in the middle of an intersection and was a big safety issue. So they are on our side but not much corporate support it seems. One day at a time.
If things have gone haywire on the upgrade for this dealer 4 times I would be suspicious of his capabilities or if they are a big dealer and have done many more perhaps it is one technician that did them all wrong.

I have a small dealer that also sells Fords and claims to have only sold 2 Ecodiesels which I believe. Few people special order trucks here and he keeps his lot well stocked with Bighorns and sells from stock. Anyhow, when I called to schedule my update the service advisor said he needed to check if they had everything they needed and if the tech had done the training. He called me back and said they would have the paperwork packge from FCA the following week and we scheduled an appointment. When I got there he said they had done one Ecodiesel and I would be the second. He said they had test driven the first one and it was fine and the owner was happy with it also. Mine was done and a a few other outstanding recalls and a 3way valve warranty replacement so I left the truck and got it the next day and it was fine. Truck holds gears longer before the upshift and therefore it feels peppier to me than before. No change I can discern in the mileage.
Seems we are at the beginning of the puzzle. Bad software? Bad technician? Something unique about your truck?

It is so variable across the forum. They finally admitted they doubt a quick software fix with the epa involved. Would have to be approved. Im giving them 3 weeks then doing something myself.

Ironically i had planned the first truck trip vacation ever for August.

There are bigger problems in life but really didn't need this.
 

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Seems we are at the beginning of the puzzle. Bad software? Bad technician? Something unique about your truck?

It is so variable across the forum. They finally admitted they doubt a quick software fix with the epa involved. Would have to be approved. Im giving them 3 weeks then doing something myself.

Ironically i had planned the first truck trip vacation ever for August.

There are bigger problems in life but really didn't need this.
Nothing unique with my truck. It is bog standard with no after market additions except a tonneau cover on the box which is unlikely to affect this discussion. Many people on this forum report no problems and many do but many that do (not all) had the GDE tune and it seems to me it is more difficult for them to remember what the truck was like before the tune. Regardless of what you think about the EPA, lawyers and FCA it seems to me there has to be some evidence to allow them to say the updated tune does not materially affect the operation of the vehicle in terms of power, driveability, economy and durability.

I think it is highly unlikely that the dealer or FCA is going to come up with a new tune. We do have evidence posted here that some dealers have not done the update properly.

It seems to me the only real things the dealer can do is to retry installing the update being very careful to follow all the steps carefully and check for other codes. If that doesn't work he will have to see what FCA can tell him to do. If I were you I'd ask them if they have performed any of the V08 recalls successfully. If he hasn't then he has a problem. If he has then he should be able to figure out the issue.

Relative to this update my service order says Recall V08 performed. Reprogrammed PCM from 68306456AC to 68306456AH. Perform oil life data exchange. PReprogram TCM from 68234053AC to 68234053AH per recall V08.
 

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Obviously something going on at that dealer. I dropped mine off for the update yesterday and it was in and out very quickly, and since the update included something for the TCM as well, I think my truck might be driving even better than it did before. Seems to shift smoother, although I never had an issue with the 8-speed before now.

Good luck getting it straightened out - hopefully the dealer can take care of it so you don't have to extend the hassle and stress you're going through.
 

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Discussion Starter #49 (Edited)
Seems we are at the beginning of the puzzle. Bad software? Bad technician? Something unique about your truck?

It is so variable across the forum. They finally admitted they doubt a quick software fix with the epa involved. Would have to be approved. Im giving them 3 weeks then doing something myself.

Ironically i had planned the first truck trip vacation ever for August.

There are bigger problems in life but really didn't need this.
Nothing unique with my truck. It is bog standard with no after market additions except a tonneau cover on the box which is unlikely to affect this discussion. Many people on this forum report no problems and many do but many that do (not all) had the GDE tune and it seems to me it is more difficult for them to remember what the truck was like before the tune. Regardless of what you think about the EPA, lawyers and FCA it seems to me there has to be some evidence to allow them to say the updated tune does not materially affect the operation of the vehicle in terms of power, driveability, economy and durability.

I think it is highly unlikely that the dealer or FCA is going to come up with a new tune. We do have evidence posted here that some dealers have not done the update properly.

It seems to me the only real things the dealer can do is to retry installing the update being very careful to follow all the steps carefully and check for other codes. If that doesn't work he will have to see what FCA can tell him to do. If I were you I'd ask them if they have performed any of the V08 recalls successfully. If he hasn't then he has a problem. If he has then he should be able to figure out the issue.

Relative to this update my service order says Recall V08 performed. Reprogrammed PCM from 68306456AC to 68306456AH. Perform oil life data exchange. PReprogram TCM from 68234053AC to 68234053AH per recall V08.
Mine was as standard as they come. I never even heard of after market tunes. Dealer has done many successfully.

They are scratching their heads. “We have to fix your truck but we don't know how.”

I think there is a case to revert it back. I did not give informed consent. True risks benefits not disclosed. Keep the rebate. I want my truck back.

Seems unless they try to enforce everyone to do this, you should have choice and that includes reverting it back.

One note to all you who think it is driver perception. The service manager is driving all these cars. She is very clear. “This one is fine. This one is really bad. This one is bad (mine). This one is off a bit. “

So I trust all you drivers out there. I think there are mixed results.
 

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It seems like those that haven't completed the AEM update, but still intend to do so, may want to wait until later in the allotted time window, after the problems have surfaced and solutions are available.
 

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For sure on the "hold off". If I could do it over I would gladly forgo the money to get my truck back to original. The upgrade is really bad on my truck and the dealer has checked it twice and says that's all the can do.
 

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Here's an interesting story I was told yesterday. I didn't hear it from the Ram owner but I heard it an involved person. This fellow bought a used Ram Ecodiesel and it has several problems. He got the AEM flash but it did not complete it because the dealer could not get the regen to complete. Regardless, FCA approved it (an interesting side note). The owner had more problems after the AEM flash. Problems including the type other owners have reported. The owner is livid because they can't fix his problems. He escalates his complaint to some higher level at FCA. Here's the point of the story - the higher level person tells the owner to have patience as they are coming out with another flash. I don't know if those were his exact words but that is what the owner understood.

I was ready to do the AEM flash but now I will wait until I the deadline. Here in Califunny the deadline is my next registration date (3/2020) because the AEM (V08) flash has to be performed before they will re-register the vehicle.

Don't know if the "higher level" was patronizing the owner or whether he knew what's happening at FCA - time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Here's an interesting story I was told yesterday. I didn't hear it from the Ram owner but I heard it an involved person. This fellow bought a used Ram Ecodiesel and it has several problems. He got the AEM flash but it did not complete it because the dealer could not get the regen to complete. Regardless, FCA approved it (an interesting side note). The owner had more problems after the AEM flash. Problems including the type other owners have reported. The owner is livid because they can't fix his problems. He escalates his complaint to some higher level at FCA. Here's the point of the story - the higher level person tells the owner to have patience as they are coming out with another flash. I don't know if those were his exact words but that is what the owner understood.

I was ready to do the AEM flash but now I will wait until I the deadline. Here in Califunny the deadline is my next registration date (3/2020) because the AEM (V08) flash has to be performed before they will re-register the vehicle.

Don't know if the "higher level" was patronizing the owner or whether he knew what's happening at FCA - time will tell.
I hope you are right. Something is going on at the corporate level because here, the truck that is the most impacted (lost all power in a busy intersection) is the truck they are focusing on to figure out the problem and hopefully once they fix that one, they will know what to do for the rest of us. So, they say they are doing various tests and working with corporate. And I should be patient. They are going to provide me with a rental at no cost and I said I was planning a car trip in August and they said, well, you can probably take the rental if you need to... So, the time frame is concerning. I'm not sure how long I am going to wait before considering my own fix.
 

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If you have the money, sue CA, DOJ, and EPA. FCA is just finding the "best" solution to the situation they have put themselves into.

I doubt you will win without the expenditure of millions just for the scientific research to prove once and for all if the EPA is barking up the wrong tree when it comes to emissions.

In other words, it won't happen. I sorry. It's just reality.
 

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The AEM is software. No software is perfect. It is entirely possible that there are bugs in the AEM that are the root cause of the varied experiences post AEM. We will not know until FCA issues an updated version (if ever). There ARE ways to make software nearly perfect. It is called formal validation which uses mathematical processes to validate software at each stage of development. It is incredibly time consuming and costly which means this technique is reserved for use-cases where the consequences of software failure are catastrophic (think nuclear reactor). I'm pretty sure FCA did not use formal validation for the AEM. :))
 

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Not sure where you got your info on s/w checking, but most often, s/w is checked by a cached check sum generated from all the bits in the s/w stream and then recalculated once the s/w has been installed to insure that all was transferred correctly. Problem is, while they probably did this check when each dealer got the s/w from the FCA host machine, I would doubt that our ECM's have the ability to do that same calculation. Without that check sum, there is probably no way one can know if a s/w download was/is good or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Not sure where you got your info on s/w checking, but most often, s/w is checked by a cached check sum generated from all the bits in the s/w stream and then recalculated once the s/w has been installed to insure that all was transferred correctly. Problem is, while they probably did this check when each dealer got the s/w from the FCA host machine, I would doubt that our ECM's have the ability to do that same calculation. Without that check sum, there is probably no way one can know if a s/w download was/is good or not.
Appreciate getting to this level of the issue. Hopefully there are software/coder gurus at corporate who are hunkered over this and working as fast as possible.
 

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Not a scam. I am broke because I was a nurse for decades and went to law school in my 40's. Still coping with law school loans. My attorney career got sunk by an abusive husband who was too threatened by my law career and the 2008 downturn. I'm happy to post a picture of my old cars. I received the VW at age 17 as a Christmas present from my parents, both dead now. So it is sentimental. I bought the Mini brand new after surviving law school and finally getting a decent job after 25 years of being paid less than 30K per year as a nurse. So the Mini has a certain symbolism as well. I bought the truck as an old age strategy after finally being able to own a home in the country after trying to make that happen for 35 years.

Getting out of an abusive marriage at age 66, no one is too anxious to hire you as a lawyer. I am working back in health care at multiple jobs as a nurse. Laugh if you want. It is the truth.

You are ignorant if you don't know what hard-working women do to survive when they would like a nice life like the rest of you. Please give me credit for resilience and hard work, not doubt and mockery. I find when I post on forums that have a lot of male energy, I often get attacked, so apologies to the kind folks who have helped me.

And yes, I am honest to a fault. I don't like the GDE option and I will stay with the dealer as long as they will try to help me. But I am not going to let them destroy my truck.

*******************************

You know, it is so sad this battle of the sexes and it causes so much unnecessary grief. You should try driving with me in the truck sometime. Just by being a female driving a nice truck and having my "I brake for squirrels" bumper sticker, these macho guys in their big trucks zoom past me, give me the finger and then cut me off. All I did was dare to drive a truck on the same highway as them.

How can we bridge the gap so men understand that women like trucks, they may be more sentimental, they may envision survival strategies differently, but they don't deserve full on attack for no other reason than existing, being their goofy selves, and doing their best in a world that is not a level playing field.
I am a recovering RN and worked with many a Lady your comments remind me of. Your assessment of the patient is accurate, the treatment options have been given, the diagnosis and prognosis should be clear.

One must rule out all options except the final solution and as you know, never take the opinions of the patients's family members personal. Clearly your RN heart cares for the truck and that is very understandable...I love mine too.

Time for your JD mind to process the factual evidence of the case and decide whether to prosecute (fix) or walk away (trade/sell).

Please post the Judgement when the case is decided.
 

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Not sure where you got your info on s/w checking, but most often, s/w is checked by a cached check sum generated from all the bits in the s/w stream and then recalculated once the s/w has been installed to insure that all was transferred correctly. Problem is, while they probably did this check when each dealer got the s/w from the FCA host machine, I would doubt that our ECM's have the ability to do that same calculation. Without that check sum, there is probably no way one can know if a s/w download was/is good or not.
I'm not talking checking the transfer/installation of the finished software. I'm talking about checking and validation during development.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Are there other owners whose truck is sitting at the dealer while the dealer admits there is something big wrong with the truck and they are trying to figure out what to do?

The reality of all this is hitting me over the weekend as I had a great truck 10 days ago and now I have no truck. I "wrangle" 15 acres by myself, and am in a high wildfire area. I had just rigged up the truck to pull out my classic VW bug should the worse happen. Tow bar matches hitch height, etc. Even with a rental, I can't do most of the things I do with my truck.

I think the likelihood they are going to return my truck close to what it was is very low. I'm thinking of just picking it up and doing my own version of a fix.

Are there any others in my situation just sitting on hold?

Thanks
 
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