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Question: isn't ideal tongue weight around 12%? So if they have a a 4k pound trailer and put 1k tongue weight, that's 25% and double ideal..
Yes the ideal is somewhere between 10%-15% whichever makes the trailer pull smooth and the weight distribution works.
They went with a 1K tongue weight which is probably in the ballpark of what someone would be actually towing. The actual trailer weight didn't really matter for this demonstration. For an actual 1K tongue the trailer would be around 8K to 10K lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Yes the ideal is somewhere between 10%-15% whichever makes the trailer pull smooth and the weight distribution works.
They went with a 1K tongue weight which is probably in the ballpark of what someone would be actually towing. The actual trailer weight didn't really matter for this demonstration. For an actual 1K tongue the trailer would be around 8K to 10K lbs.
ahh ok that makes sense then. thank you sir.
 

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If your buying new and have the $$ I would definitely go for the OEM air ride. WAAY more user friendly and probably will last the life of the truck. I bought a 1 year old truck so didn't have a choice otherwise I would love to have it.
Remember, you see what seems like a lot of problems on the forum but most people only post on forums to get solutions to problems that they're having. (That's a big reason why we're here)
So the vast majority with air suspension that is working fine you never hear from. So it's probably a tiny percentage of the total of trucks with air suspension that have any issues.
 

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I have a 2016 stock suspension with GDE. I have not had any issues with the truck and I'm glad I installed the GDE, my dealer does not seem to care.

Regarding the suspension, I had a 2500 Dodge diesel before this, with Bilstein shocks. It no doubt had a firm ride, but boy could it tow and handle a load. When I got this truck, I really enjoyed the nice cushy ride, until I drove on a curvy road, or towed. First off, this truck was all over the road when you got on something with curves, really bad. I immediately had remorse that I didn't even test drive the factory air package. Then when I towed a small load (3000 lbs) I was further dismayed how this thing handled. I did some research and the first thing I did was replace the (hollow) factory rear anti sway bar. About $100 do it yourself, and boy could I tell the difference. I probably should have done the front also, but did not. The truck was still soft riding and but now it could handle a small tow load and curvy roads better. I would highly recommend looking into this if you get a stock truck. You really should look into investing several hundred into the suspension, sway bars, shocks, airbags, etc. if you get a stock truck and want to tow. Certainly the WDH also for a heavy load.

I considered airbags, but since I don't tow heavy loads and don't tow very often I have not done this. But I still am not sold on how this truck handles on curves off major highways. I will definitely look into testing out the factory air suspension on my next truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
If your buying new and have the $$ I would definitely go for the OEM air ride. WAAY more user friendly and probably will last the life of the truck. I bought a 1 year old truck so didn't have a choice otherwise I would love to have it.
Remember, you see what seems like a lot of problems on the forum but most people only post on forums to get solutions to problems that they're having. (That's a big reason why we're here)
So the vast majority with air suspension that is working fine you never hear from. So it's probably a tiny percentage of the total of trucks with air suspension that have any issues.
That's a great point! My brother made the same comment, that most people are only here posting because an issue.

While I get a little sick thinking about dropping $55-65k on a new vehicle, it will be a long term investment and I should treat myself this time around. haha. I've only ever bought sub $5k vehicles off Craigslist that needed work, and drove beaters my whole life so I could save money for all of my other toys and hobbies. But it's finally time to have something suitable for a family and reliable as well. I think it's a reasonable investment finally.

I have a 2016 stock suspension with GDE. I have not had any issues with the truck and I'm glad I installed the GDE, my dealer does not seem to care.

Regarding the suspension, I had a 2500 Dodge diesel before this, with Bilstein shocks. It no doubt had a firm ride, but boy could it tow and handle a load. When I got this truck, I really enjoyed the nice cushy ride, until I drove on a curvy road, or towed. First off, this truck was all over the road when you got on something with curves, really bad. I immediately had remorse that I didn't even test drive the factory air package. Then when I towed a small load (3000 lbs) I was further dismayed how this thing handled. I did some research and the first thing I did was replace the (hollow) factory rear anti sway bar. About $100 do it yourself, and boy could I tell the difference. I probably should have done the front also, but did not. The truck was still soft riding and but now it could handle a small tow load and curvy roads better. I would highly recommend looking into this if you get a stock truck. You really should look into investing several hundred into the suspension, sway bars, shocks, airbags, etc. if you get a stock truck and want to tow. Certainly the WDH also for a heavy load.

I considered airbags, but since I don't tow heavy loads and don't tow very often I have not done this. But I still am not sold on how this truck handles on curves off major highways. I will definitely look into testing out the factory air suspension on my next truck.
Glad to hear about you're happy and the GDE hasn't been an issue with the dealer. I'm definitely going to source a GDE ecu as soon as they're available. I don't care about increased power, but the EGR disable cleaning up the engine is a must and the fuel economy increase is definitely a plus too.

Yea that definitely sounds like you were experience body roll and the soft sway bars were the issue. I'll have to read up on that or see what other people may have done. I've seen other people also talk about tire selection, load range, etc, so maybe that's something to look at as well. Are you still on factory tires?

Thanks for sharing!
 

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Yea that definitely sounds like you were experience body roll and the soft sway bars were the issue. I'll have to read up on that or see what other people may have done. I've seen other people also talk about tire selection, load range, etc, so maybe that's something to look at as well. Are you still on factory tires?
Well, I have the Outdoorsman model and I got it because it came with tow pkg and a bunch of stuff plus "E" rated 10 ply tires on 17 inch rims. I did not want 20 tires/wheels for driving on gravel hunting and fishing roads, etc. Plus, the 20 inch tires cost about 50% more if you want E rated. I replaced my stock tires when they wore out with Cooper Ds AT3s.

So, I think your point is correct that a low profile 20 inch tire would handle better. However, I think the major problem is the suspension. The stock hollow sway bar weights nothing, the replacement seems solid and weighs a lot more. These things are just plain soft and squishy. If you want to tow a lot you need to upgrade the suspension, and I just barely did a few things. I'll probably look for a new model within the next year.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Well, I have the Outdoorsman model and I got it because it came with tow pkg and a bunch of stuff plus "E" rated 10 ply tires on 17 inch rims. I did not want 20 tires/wheels for driving on gravel hunting and fishing roads, etc. Plus, the 20 inch tires cost about 50% more if you want E rated. I replaced my stock tires when they wore out with Cooper Ds AT3s.

So, I think your point is correct that a low profile 20 inch tire would handle better. However, I think the major problem is the suspension. The stock hollow sway bar weights nothing, the replacement seems solid and weighs a lot more. These things are just plain soft and squishy. If you want to tow a lot you need to upgrade the suspension, and I just barely did a few things. I'll probably look for a new model within the next year.
Yea i agree. The biggest rave from reviewers for these trucks is how well they ride. So it makes sense they have a soft plush suspension in factory form.

I'm unfamiliar with what the Outdoorsman Ram offered for the tow package trim. Some manufactures will list heavy duty shock absorbers and/or springs listed for the tow package, but i think when i spec'ed out the Ram trailer/tow group it only offered tow mirrors and a trailer brake in the 1500 laramie package. The offroad package has the "heavy duty shocks" which is probably stiffer compression valving. I don't see any upgraded sway bars. That would definitely be the route to go to prevent body roll and stiffen the vehicle up.

I'm also unfamiliar with what route to go with tires. Low profiles on a truck is a whole new thing to me. I guess the 20" rim with a low profile side wall will give the performance handling and the modern suspensions ride way better so you don't have to worrry about losing sidewall give to improve the ride. But I always thought you ran a decent size side wall to get a little give out of the tire and soften the blow of the road some. A C range was comfortable for a 1500 if you weren't hauling anything, and then stepping up to an E range when you wanted to tow something. But i'm out of the loop currently on that. Never did i anticipate a 20" or 22" rim with a 50-55 sidewall on a truck before. haha.
 

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thanks for putting the video here.

Question: isn't ideal tongue weight around 12%? So if they have a a 4k pound trailer and put 1k tongue weight, that's 25% and double ideal..
I noticed that too, and I believe they did it just for demonstrative purposes. It made the trailer's tongue weight more noticeable on the truck, and better illustrated the comparison between air bags and WDH.

You do not want too much tongue weight. You want 10-15% tongue weight, with 12% being close to ideal. Too much is bad.
 
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I definitely getting the 6'4" bed. I'd go 8' if the wife wouldn't care. but realistically it's not need when you get put the tail gate down in a 6'4" and still hold a sheet of drywall in there just fine. As for that same reason, I'm not going to get bed side ramboxes since you lose width in the bed not? If it's not longer 4' wide, i'd hate to lose the option of throwing drywall in the back flat. I'll have to take measurements
Okay, here is what I found. I wanted to just grab the pics, but this newfangled Microsoft Edge is eating my lunch.
allpar.com said:
The next bit of negativity with the RamBox Cargo Management system is the narrower bed, and that seemed like a valid enough complaint for me to conduct some tests. I found an oddly shaped piece of wood in my workshop that measured 48 inches at its widest point. I laid that piece of wood in the bed of my own Ram without the RamBox system with a tape measure to show the width of the bed. I then put that same piece of wood in the bed of the 2016 Ram 1500 with the RamBox system and, as you can see in the images below, it fit just as well. In fact, the bed with the Cargo Management System is about an inch wider than the area between the wheel humps in my bed. The big difference with the RamBox system is that the areas around the wheel humps are filled in, and that is where you technically lose space in the bed. When you are hauling large boxes or plywood, that space doesn’t make any difference, since those spots are typically empty when hauling large boxes, large pieces of wood, etc.
Here's the entire article.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Okay, here is what I found. I wanted to just grab the pics, but this newfangled Microsoft Edge is eating my lunch.Here's the entire article.
I appreciate the share sir!

I just got back from the dealer lot after taking measurements on several things.

Ram box bed width is approx 50". A normal box is approximately 62" wide at the top of the bed and almost front&back, but you still have the wheel well limitation at around 50" itself.

So i'm sold on the Ram box. That additional concealed/dry storage would be great.

Now on to what I found on with the factory suspension comparing coil vs air.

The air suspension may have a slightly different bump stop on it. It's black in color, opposed to the orangish-yellow on the coil trucks, and may be of a different material with different spring/squish rate.

One thing that caught my eye was the amount of distance between the coil truck bump stop and axle. A solid 4" of up-travel before it hits the bump. I watched a timber grove installation video, and a coil truck at factory ride height with the bags uninflated looked close to being almost fully compressed (binding of top plate and bottom plate).

TG sells their direct bolt on kit with no modifications that's sits in the place of the factory bump. The bag top and bottom plate plus the mounting bracket height when fully compressed may limited up-travel compared to factory configuration. Obviously they're constrained with limits on bag design/ mounting hardware thickness, top and bottom plate, etc.

But from what my eye sees, it looks like running an aftermarket air bag limits the amount of up-travel your suspension has before bottoming out. Bottoming out occurs when no air is in them as many have reported. And then adding the minimal 5-7psi with further limit up-travel.

Just thinking out loud.

Anyway, i found a nice ED in Limited Trim on Air and an ED in Laramie Longhorn on Coils in the dealer lot. I'm going to head back one day soon when I have free time and take a test drive comparing the two's ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Here's a bummer though, the Ram Box storage is only available in the 5'7" bed and is excluded on the 6'4" bed option. (n)
 

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Discussion Starter #33
If so, that's a new thing. My ex's 2015 has 6'4" with RAMBoxes.
It must be. I just got back from the dealership, RamBox is only available in 5'7" bed on 2020 Ram 1500.

I'm torn about getting them. My rationale is thinking about getting a load of mulch or stone, the extra space around the wheel wells, and the additional 9" bed length would allow me to get 2 yards of mulch in. Having some extra clearance on a 60" bucket would be nice too haha. But in the grand scheme of things, it's once or a twice a year that i'd even use the bed for that...

The visual appeal of all of that "extra space" is probably confusing me. Though I did not initially think "Ramboxes... great, more room for storage!", i'm sure with the option being available, i'll find plenty of use for it. I can't put an 8'6" fishing rod diagonal in either, so looks like i'll just have to add a rod locker to my boat in the future if i want to lock them up.


About the air vs coil.. Today I drove a Limited on air and a Laramie Longhorn on coils. The factory air does improve the ride quality. I will say the factory coils are phenomenal and I would not call the difference significant but it did dampen bumps better. I drove each truck in the same several mile loop on the highway, on some back roads, and off road out a state game land access road which had some decent rough sections.

The main selling point is also the versatility of the adjustable ride height. I can see myself using the entry/exit mode frequently for not only loading cargo but also fiddling with car seats, kids, etc in the future from the ground. As far as the cargo part goes, that lowest height setting plus the new split tailgate will definitely be an improvement when loading up the bed with anything heavy like bags of concrete or feed.

And i've browsed several threads here about factory air, the factory guide for utilizing a WDH, and many have no issues with the tow quality. So hopefully it all works out for me.
 

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Well, I've read through all of these posts and if you're still looking at different configurations I'll give you my 2 cents. Obviously this is my opinion - YMMV.

Besides the diesel engine, my favorite option on my Laramie Longhorn is the RamBoxes. That's where I store my WDH including the bars, my grill cover for the cold months, ratchet straps, bungee cords, a standard 2 inch hitch bar, a couple of gallons of windshield washer fluid, EDT diesel fluid, shop towels - yea, they're full of stuff. But nothing is in the bed OR the cab. And the floor boxes in the back seat? NOT RamBoxes! That salesman should bone up on Ram features... And as you've found the bed width with RamBoxes is slightly wider than a standard bed so other than the loss of space on either side of the wheel wells there's no real loss of space. I have the 5'7" bed and there are times I wish it was 6'4" instead but it's not a huge deal for me. The cargo management system includes a bed extender/cargo divider than enables you to extend the bed over the tailgate for a bit extra carrying capacity. It's like a tailgate over the tailgate.

I also have the air suspension and the ride is definitely improved over the standard coils. For reference, I'm in Northern Ohio and a couple of times in very cold weather (below 10 degrees F) it has deflated and left me running on the bump stops. Once it warms up the suspension is back to normal. Twice in the last 6 months the computer has gotten lost and thought the suspension was at normal height but it was down on the stops. I've done some research and the rear bags can be replaced for about $200 per side but the fronts - which are a combo spring and shock - are about $800 each which would be a deal breaker if they fail (I'd replace a rear bag or both at $200 each.) I've found a company named Strutmaster in North Carolina that sells replacement springs and shocks along with a module to tell the computer that the truck no longer has air suspension. Should the front bags fail/leak that's the direction I'd go.

The air suspension is great when towing - it keeps the truck at it's standard ride height and then a WDH levers weight back to the front axle to maintain stability and prevent trailer sway. You definitely need a WDH if you're towing a trailer that takes a lot of weight off the front axle.

I'm not worried about EGR issues (you may surmise why...) so I expect to drive my truck for quite some time assuming rust doesn't become an issue. And with what I know of the 2020 diesel it should do very well.

Again, just my 2 cents.


Bob
 

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I run rear in spring air bags for many miles with no issue. But 1 thing that I installed that helped the cornering, especially towing : Helwig rear sway bar upgrade. It has 3 adjustments for firmness. Ended up on the firmest setting. Have towed up to 10,000 lb trailers with serious tongue weight, no WDH and running 15 psi in the bags, it towed like a dream. As far as rust, I live in Maine, really bad for salt, etc. My last Ram, a 2005 had no rust at 300,000 miles, BUT, I sprayed "Fluid Film" everywhere possible. Inside fenders, rocker panels, frame , bumpers, etc. Even dropped fuel tank and sprayed above it. If you are vigilant you can keep rust at bay, even in Maine.
 
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I've read the sway bar to help towing with interest and seen it stated elsewhere but not by engineers mfgrs or retailers selling them for that purpose. Some know I am original owner of an 87 Buick Grand National ie a relatively nose light turbo v6. Last of the full frame rear wheel drive and I'll say muscle cars. IE that needed handling help for their power & weight. I've built a few Gbody muscle cars to include a nose heavy 509ci Cadillac powered 87 Olds 442. Both cars came down the same assembly line then different directions for the brand cosmetics. Both street cars that ran low 12s in the quarter on radials. But they were not set up as drag cars. Living near two large clover leaf highways I liked them to turn as well. Not to expect it to corner like a new vette. But experimented with wheels tires poly bushings and thicker end links with poly, springs, and naturally sway bars. From no rear sway bar to thicker front plus solid rear bars they put the performance models to using an even stiffer but slightly bigger diameter and much lighter hollow sway bar off a max handling package 90s F-body on the rear. Amazing the F body bar was a direct drop in on the G body. Also used in coil air bags to pre load the rear suspension for best traction for a launch as well.

Anyway sway bars can really help with cornering traction and body sway. But a receiver is relatively low and central between the tires and not something that should shift great weight to driver or passenger sides on a curve. Not even at a 1,000 pounds TW. It seems to me and in my experience if you have a trailer truck set up that did not handle & corner correctly that the tongue weight percentage and or weight distribution between axles is off as in especially an unloaded front axle. If this is set up incorrectly it will handle badly and a sway bar would not do much to help it. That these problems should first be resolved at the root of the problem. Although generally a better sway bar(s) can do a lot to improve cornering or slalom. And stiff and strong enough can do a lot with high center of gravity weight such as a slide in camper.

I'll 2nd the Fluid Film big fan of that product.
 
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I’ve got a 16 Bighorn, 5’7” bed, 4wd, GDE tuned for past 45 k miles. I tow a Lance 1995 with a Hensley hitch. My truck has been great. The GDE hot tune and trans tune turned it from a great truck to an outstanding one! I run Airlift airbags in the back. If I was buying today the only other option I’d want would be the Ramboxes. A full size truck that will give you 30 mpg’s, and will give half that towing a TT at Interstate speed is to me nothing short of incredible. Love my EcoD👍
 

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I’ve also added the Trailmaster aftermarket tow mirrors ( same features as stock, look like OEM tow mirrors)
 

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Lol, I like the details and talking it out. Thanks for responding with your experience AND opinions.

Both your inputs make sense and hopefully the Gen3 ED has adequate revisions and very few reported issues.

Agreed on the factory air! To have the options to lower it (or raise it in whatever scenario necessary, like if the running boards might hit) would just be super convenient. My only con was reliability after browsing the suspension page; i'd hate to randomly have a bag run low for whatever reason 5 years down the road. But maybe it's as simple as just checking the air lines and repairing.

I plan to drive comparable trims in both coil and factory air now, so i'll let you know if i can tell any difference in a few mile trip over some bumpy back roads.

I definitely getting the 6'4" bed. I'd go 8' if the wife wouldn't care. but realistically it's not need when you get put the tail gate down in a 6'4" and still hold a sheet of drywall in there just fine. As for that same reason, I'm not going to get bed side ramboxes since you lose width in the bed not? If it's not longer 4' wide, i'd hate to lose the option of throwing drywall in the back flat. I'll have to take measurements

The storage bins in the floor of the rear cab is very cool also. The sales guy also called them Ramboxes. You can fit a drop hitch in there etc.

The leather is a slight up grade but my biggest desire is the ventilated seats. haha. I run a bit hot and i've always wanted to know what it's like not to sweat through my back/rear whether the a/c is blasting or not haha.

I'm definitely looking forward to premium sound too.

I need to look in to whatever the mirror options are and someone mentioned that one of the camera views is eliminated if you go tow mirrors. I'll have to check.

And appreciate the recommendation on the WDH. That gives me a good starting point. I'll have to do some reading and see what the options are and general consensus. I have a set of scales to weigh my vette, but not sure if thats how a "professional WDH setup" is performed... need to watch that video asap shared on one of these other threads.

Thanks for input and responding. I'm really starting to get excited for a new truck! I've only ever bought used cheap bargain vehicles haha so this will be a whole new world for me.
The bed with the Ram Box will fit 4x8 sheets of drywall / plywood without a problem
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Well I appreciate everyone's input.

Sorry I took a hiatus the past few months.

I'm in PA, so things got closed up literally the day I was going to make the move on a truck. Then we contemplated a lot purchase and home build, but the numbers didn't line up so we passed. But i'm glad it all went down like it did, because it gave me a while longer to think over the build.

I actually finally pulled the trigger and the dealer submitted my build today.

I'm looking forward to sharing any info I can in the future, and hopefully holding on to this truck for a solid 20+ years.

Here's what I chose to build:
2020 Ram 1500
Laramie trim (customer preferred 28H)
4x4
Crew Cab
6'4" bed
3.0L Ecodiesel
8HP75 auto trans
Diamond Black Crystal Pearl-Coat exterior paint
5 passenger seating Leather Trimmed Bucket Seats


Package Add Ons:
Laramie Level 2 Equipment Group
Night Edition
Advanced Safety Group
Protection Group
Bed Utility Group
Cold Weather Group

Upgrades/Add Ons:
Electric Locking Rear Axle (3.92 required)
4 corner Air Suspension
33 gallon fuel tank
Multi-Function Tailgate
12" Uconnect w/ Navigation
Dual Pane Panoramic Sunroof
Front and Rear Rubber Floor mats
Trailer Brake Controller

Attached is the dealer build request too. They can only speculate any of the rebates, incentives, etc so those deductions will be made when the truck arrives and the sale takes place.

$1000 nonrefundable deposit to initiate the order.

I'm excited and also nervous. I can't believe i'm spending this much on a vehicle, but I plan to keep it until it dies.

Fluid film already planned, my brother has the sprayer and has done 2 of his vehicles for years up in CT with great results.

And i'm going to ceramic coat the exterior also.

I couldn't live with myself having a short bed truck, LOL, so I went 6'4". I have a locking utility box on the front of my trailer, so I keep everything in there anyway. The RamBoxes would definitely have been used, but I just couldn't do it. O well. I keep seeing more and more aftermarket bed storage options, including side mounted inside bed storage, so i think i'll have options down the road to add something similar if desired.

Gotta run, but I'll share more when I get the truck! Thanks everyone!
86629


2020 ram.jpg
 
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