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I am running Red Line - but as part of a group where you have access to some tribologists - I’ve learned that it isn’t ideal. It’s more than sufficient for the application I believe - I will have a sample tested shortly (it’s in the mail) to confirm that. And so, as they sponsor a few friends of mine in their endeavors, I make it a habit to patronize their product.
 

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Discussion Starter #202
I am running Red Line - but as part of a group where you have access to some tribologists - I’ve learned that it isn’t ideal. It’s more than sufficient for the application I believe - I will have a sample tested shortly (it’s in the mail) to confirm that. And so, as they sponsor a few friends of mine in their endeavors, I make it a habit to patronize their product.
I wish you had some data on the Amsoil.

By the way, I purchased my 2020 Ram yesterday. Instead of going to Utah to pick it up, I'm having it delivered. I hope to have it by the end of next week.
 

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I wish you had some data on the Amsoil.

By the way, I purchased my 2020 Ram yesterday. Instead of going to Utah to pick it up, I'm having it delivered. I hope to have it by the end of next week.
I can say confidently that if the Red Line is good, the AMSOIL will be better!
 

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Discussion Starter #204
I can say confidently that if the Red Line is good, the AMSOIL will be better!
Hopefully I will have some data to post. I'll plan to change my factory oil at 3,000 miles. Then I will take an oil sample at 6,000 miles with the Amsoil. I'm planning to use oil analyzers to do my testing.
 

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Updated on 7/15/2020

Recommendation: Do NOT rely solely on this list. Always double check to make sure the following oils are current in meeting factory specifications.

The new 3rd gen (2020+) EcoDiesel has different specs than the 2nd generation (2014 - 2019) engine. The following oils have been known to meet the new MS-12991 and API SN Certification/Standard/Approval. I put them in order based on what I think are more 'commonly known', not based on preference or performance.

Mopar 68231020AA 5W-40
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
Valvoline European Vehicle 5W-40
Quaker State Ultimate Durability EURO 5W-40
Havoline ProDS 5W-40
Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40 Classic ESP Synthetic (EFM)
Redline Full Synthetic 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40
TRIAX Euro LX 5W-40
TRIAX Euro Ultra VX 5W-40
Ravenol VST 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 SXR 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 FT 5W-40
AMALIE Elixir Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Millers Oil Trident Fully Synthetic 5W-40
Millers Oils XF LONGLIFE 5W-40
MPT Thirty-K True Synthetic High Performance 5W-40
CAM2 Blue Blood Elite Euro 5W-40
FUCHS TITAN Supersyn SAE 5W-40
REPSOL ELITE COSMOS HIGH PERFORMANCE 5W-40

I will update this thread as new approved oils are added.
 

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What is the sulfated ash content number set for the Ms-12991?
Do you have any idea what the sulfated ash content is in the Mopar or the Pennzoil Platinum European since they are the top two?
Thanks
Mike
 

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What is the sulfated ash content number set for the Ms-12991?
Do you have any idea what the sulfated ash content is in the Mopar or the Pennzoil Platinum European since they are the top two?
Thanks
Mike
900-1100 PPM, or 0.9-1.1%, from what Valvoline told me.
That falls in line with the Gen 2 T6, which is 1%. So I’m not sure what specifically is the reason they opted for the other spec, but something must be different!
 

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Is the Amsoil website just not updated yet to show it meets MS-12991? I couldn’t find it listed there. I emailed them, using their online form yesterday but have not heard back from them yet.
 

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Update on the Amsoil ratings question:

biodiesel & OhioTech,

I hadn't received an answer via email from Amsoil, so called them just now. Ryan there took my call. I explained that on this forum it was said that the 5W-40 European Car Formula ESP Synthetic (EFM) had recently attained the MS-12991 rating, and that I couldn’t find that stated on their website.

Ryan explained that this oil exceeded the MS-12991 specified sulfur or phosphorus (he didn’t recall which one) by 0.03%, and for that reason, they will not be listing MS-12991 on the bottle.

Do either of you have different information on this?

Thanks,
Bill
 

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Mostly, I can tell you it’s irrelevant.
Oil is the source of ash that the DPF cannot burn out. That oil usually comes from ring bypass, and vapor pulled through the intake.

Pennzoil has a volatility upwards of 14%. In effect, it’s easily dispersed into intake air, and volatility is a great indicator of how much will be burned past the rings.

AMSOIL is around 9%, and tends to burn about 76% less.... so, .03% too much SAPS, and 76% less use = about 75.97% less ash in the DPF!

If you want my thoughts on the matter.

Update on the Amsoil ratings question:

biodiesel & OhioTech,

I hadn't received an answer via email from Amsoil, so called them just now. Ryan there took my call. I explained that on this forum it was said that the 5W-40 European Car Formula ESP Synthetic (EFM) had recently attained the MS-12991 rating, and that I couldn’t find that stated on their website.

Ryan explained that this oil exceeded the MS-12991 specified sulfur or phosphorus (he didn’t recall which one) by 0.03%, and for that reason, they will not be listing MS-12991 on the bottle.

Do either of you have different information on this?

Thanks,
Bill
 

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Mostly, I can tell you it’s irrelevant.
Oil is the source of ash that the DPF cannot burn out. That oil usually comes from ring bypass, and vapor pulled through the intake.

Pennzoil has a volatility upwards of 14%. In effect, it’s easily dispersed into intake air, and volatility is a great indicator of how much will be burned past the rings.

AMSOIL is around 9%, and tends to burn about 76% less.... so, .03% too much SAPS, and 76% less use = about 75.97% less ash in the DPF!

If you want my thoughts on the matter.
Yes, thank you very much for your thoughts on this. I’m generally not overly worried about warranty complications. But in this case, what are your thoughts about how large a concern one should have about using a high quality oil, like this Amsoil offering, if they don’t obtain the MS rating?

I think I read where biodiesel reported having received notice that the MS spec was going to be part of Amsoil specs. But that was a couple months or more ago. Did Amsoil change their mind about a slight reformulation to meet this spec? COVID is affecting lots of peoples plans, etc.

Thinking about the percentages, I would think a calculation would compare the percentage of the SAPS spec limit that the .03% exceeds it by. I don’t know what the spec limit is, but as an example, if the spec limit was .3%, then exceeding that by .03%, would be an increase of 10%. Then compare that increase against the difference in volatility. Does that make sense? I generally have a good sense of numbers but am no oil expert!

Regardless, I understand you to be pointing out that the lesser Pennzoil may meet the MS spec, but because it has higher volatility, it will deposit more ash in the DPF than the Amsoil, even though the Amsoil has a bit more SAPS. Do I have that right?

Do you have a feel for how the approved Valvoline offering stacks up regarding volatility and quality in general? I’d like to land on an oil for my 2020 Wrangler 3.0 that I can have confidence in, that I can find or have delivered to me conveniently. The Amsoil program looks good in that regard. It’s only the lack of spec that has me concerned.

I’ve been using the Rotella T6 in a 2014 Ram gen2 Ecodiesel, changing around 8K miles. But read discussions here, about that oil not having the longevity of some others. So far been trouble free but only have about 60K at this point.
 

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Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40
Red Line Oil 5w40

Both specifically list MS-12991 in their literature.

Mobil and Castrol both have oils that will exceed the requirements. Neither will list them because it’s basically impossible to get approval.

Dear customer,

We kindly inform you that the FIAT Chrysler Automobiles group has a strong commercial agreement with one of our main competitors, making it impossible for any other lubricant manufacturer/marketer to obtain the formal approval of most Fiat and Chrysler specifications (including the MS-12991). For this reason, we avoid including Fiat and Chrysler specifications in our product literature. Nevertheless, we are confident that our * is suitable for use in your vehicle.

Should you require any further assistance, please, do not hesitate in contacting with us again.

That was a typical letter from many oil manufacturers that I received.

The window, IIRC, from what Mobil shared was 900-1100 ppm, so if it fails by .03%, it’s 1130..... Basically insignificant.

There’s nothing wrong with T6 - but, if you are towing, in a lot of hills - the engine will get too hot for that oil to effectively protect a stock setup.

T6 starts to break down at 302 - sump temps of 245 can easily see the bearings exceed that under high RPM/heavy load conditions - if your oil reports are good, stick with T6! If not, I really like AMSOIL Signature Diesel 5w40! It’s composition is similar to the best race oils on the market, with the best add packs available for street use! It’s really good oil!

Incidentally, T6 is volatile, around 12-13% IIRC. Any 5w40 petroleum based oil is going to be! But it’s far better than the Euro 5w40. That stuff was north of 14%!

As it was explained to me by a tribologist who used to work for Driven race oils, that directly affects ring seal, and oil use past the rings! It’s far more critical to reduction of ash, than SAPS content!

I posted my report from my Red Line Oil in my Gen 3 Truck - (I also have a Wrangler, but it’s not due for awhile!) If you look at VOAs for the oil, it’s starting Viscosity is 14.7 cSt - mine rested 14.7 cSt @ 10K miles. It’s volatility is 6%. It is NOT as well formulated as the AMSOIL. From a technical standpoint, it has too much POE! But, at 10K intervals, it will be fine!


Do you have a feel for how the approved Valvoline offering stacks up regarding volatility and quality in general? I’d like to land on an oil for my 2020 Wrangler 3.0 that I can have confidence in, that I can find or have delivered to me conveniently. The Amsoil program looks good in that regard. It’s only the lack of spec that has me concerned.

I’ve been using the Rotella T6 in a 2014 Ram gen2 Ecodiesel
 

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Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40
Red Line Oil 5w40

Both specifically list MS-12991 in their literature.

Mobil and Castrol both have oils that will exceed the requirements. Neither will list them because it’s basically impossible to get approval.

Dear customer,

We kindly inform you that the FIAT Chrysler Automobiles group has a strong commercial agreement with one of our main competitors, making it impossible for any other lubricant manufacturer/marketer to obtain the formal approval of most Fiat and Chrysler specifications (including the MS-12991). For this reason, we avoid including Fiat and Chrysler specifications in our product literature. Nevertheless, we are confident that our * is suitable for use in your vehicle.

Should you require any further assistance, please, do not hesitate in contacting with us again.

That was a typical letter from many oil manufacturers that I received.

The window, IIRC, from what Mobil shared was 900-1100 ppm, so if it fails by .03%, it’s 1130..... Basically insignificant.

There’s nothing wrong with T6 - but, if you are towing, in a lot of hills - the engine will get too hot for that oil to effectively protect a stock setup.

T6 starts to break down at 302 - sump temps of 245 can easily see the bearings exceed that under high RPM/heavy load conditions - if your oil reports are good, stick with T6! If not, I really like AMSOIL Signature Diesel 5w40! It’s composition is similar to the best race oils on the market, with the best add packs available for street use! It’s really good oil!

Incidentally, T6 is volatile, around 12-13% IIRC. Any 5w40 petroleum based oil is going to be! But it’s far better than the Euro 5w40. That stuff was north of 14%!

As it was explained to me by a tribologist who used to work for Driven race oils, that directly affects ring seal, and oil use past the rings! It’s far more critical to reduction of ash, than SAPS content!

I posted my report from my Red Line Oil in my Gen 3 Truck - (I also have a Wrangler, but it’s not due for awhile!) If you look at VOAs for the oil, it’s starting Viscosity is 14.7 cSt - mine rested 14.7 cSt @ 10K miles. It’s volatility is 6%. It is NOT as well formulated as the AMSOIL. From a technical standpoint, it has too much POE! But, at 10K intervals, it will be fine!
you like the Amsoil signature diesel better the their euro car formula?
 
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