RAM 1500 Diesel Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In my big truck which you see in my avatar, I have what's known as a "bypass" filter. I researched and chose the one that I deemed the best. This one:



Eco-Pur | Bypass Filtration and Fluid Cleaning Leaders | OPS-1.com

I then changed my oil to synthetic which ran me almost $600. And the only time I've changed the oil in the past 223,000 miles was when the "mechanic" at the Volvo shop added some oil to my crank case when the truck was in for something else. So they had to change it on their dime. That was about 75,000 miles ago and I haven't even had to change a filter yet. But it's just about time to send in my next sample.

That's the only catch: At the time that you're supposed to change the oil, you take a sample and send it to the lab. The lab will tell you what you need to do and give you a complete report . You can get your sampling bottles/shipping materials from the manufacturer of the bypass filter.

So, since I got that new oil I have gone 2 intervals of 25,000 miles each without having to change anything. This next time, I may have to change the filter on the bypass or I may have to change that filter and the oil filter on the engine. I don't know yet as I haven't sent in my sample yet.

But just look at it this way: A regular oil change on a big truck is almost $300. In some applications this is a MONTHLY expense so it adds up to almost $3600 per year. The bypass filter kit costs about $700 for the biggest one and if you go to one of their authorized installers it will cost a couple hundred to install. I didn't have one near me, so my shop full of doofuses charged me a grand. So you can be set up for about a grand TOTAL, saving a couple of grand per year--in a big truck.

I would think that the smallest filter in the picture would be the one to go on an EcoDiesel. I don't know the cost. But over time I'm sure it would lots of money.

Discuss.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,980 Posts
Think you are going to have time to decide. You should be getting four free oil changes with your truck.

Now one issue is amount. These little Eco's only take 2 1/2 gallons of oil. I say, "only" because that's very little compared to a typical big rig engine. Filters are also much cheaper and doing the oil change is relatively easy, compared to the big rigs. There may not be much of an economic advantage here to offset the expense and trouble of engineering the bypass and installing/maintaining one. Wonder if it's reasonable to even find an external oil line you can tap into?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Nice filters. How do you know that by using Eco-Pur with lab tests etc. you are not reducing the life of your truck? Is Eco-Pur providing any guarantee?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,532 Posts
In my big truck which you see in my avatar, I have what's known as a "bypass" filter. I researched and chose the one that I deemed the best. This one:



Eco-Pur | Bypass Filtration and Fluid Cleaning Leaders | OPS-1.com

I then changed my oil to synthetic which ran me almost $600. And the only time I've changed the oil in the past 223,000 miles was when the "mechanic" at the Volvo shop added some oil to my crank case when the truck was in for something else. So they had to change it on their dime. That was about 75,000 miles ago and I haven't even had to change a filter yet. But it's just about time to send in my next sample.

That's the only catch: At the time that you're supposed to change the oil, you take a sample and send it to the lab. The lab will tell you what you need to do and give you a complete report . You can get your sampling bottles/shipping materials from the manufacturer of the bypass filter.

So, since I got that new oil I have gone 2 intervals of 25,000 miles each without having to change anything. This next time, I may have to change the filter on the bypass or I may have to change that filter and the oil filter on the engine. I don't know yet as I haven't sent in my sample yet.

But just look at it this way: A regular oil change on a big truck is almost $300. In some applications this is a MONTHLY expense so it adds up to almost $3600 per year. The bypass filter kit costs about $700 for the biggest one and if you go to one of their authorized installers it will cost a couple hundred to install. I didn't have one near me, so my shop full of doofuses charged me a grand. So you can be set up for about a grand TOTAL, saving a couple of grand per year--in a big truck.

I would think that the smallest filter in the picture would be the one to go on an EcoDiesel. I don't know the cost. But over time I'm sure it would lots of money.

Discuss.
Whether your big truck is ISX or d13 powered I'd suggest you consider fleetguard filters. They also stand behind their guarantee. Best filters on the market IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
The local Amsoil guy here is the biggest dealer in the states and a mechanical engineer who specialized in lubrication at ford for 17yrs. He has a bypass system and is well over 100,000mi on his f350 with same oil. He sends samples to Amsoil just like OP does. I find it amazing they can go so long and people still change oil at 3kmi. I go 20kmi on Amsoil and 15k on their filter. They say the oil is good for 25k but I like to change prior to winter usually and I'm usually around that mileage. Never any issues with it or my vehicle engines.


Don't tread on me!
MOLON LABE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
I would be concerned that your powertrain warranty would not be honored, if something went wrong with the engine internals. You would not be able to show evidence that you performed the recommended routine maintenance.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,980 Posts
We have had people "dump" their oil at 500 and 3,000 miles already on their Ecodiesels. They can do that. it's their engine and their money.

If you want to make an effort to obtain oil samples, pay to send it to some lab for analysis, get it back and respond to the results with addatives, filter changes, nothing ...whatever the results dictate...fine. It's your time and money.

For those of us that choose to do nothing, follow the 10,000 mile change recommendation, do it ourselves and/or have a dealer do it, it's also good. There is no compelling evidence that the factory recommendations are wrong and detrimental to the longevity of our engines.

Kind of depends on your priorities and what you like to do with your time and money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YBM

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
I would be concerned that your powertrain warranty would not be honored, if something went wrong with the engine internals. You would not be able to show evidence that you performed the recommended routine maintenance.
something I think people forget is they have to prove that the failure was do to the oil being the cause of the failure. Now you will have a harder time if you say i change my oil every 25,000 but if you can have the oil analyzed and it shows it is good then its back on them. this would also only come into play if you had a motor failure. another words they can not deny a transmission claim because you don't change your engine oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Think you are going to have time to decide. You should be getting four free oil changes with your truck.

Now one issue is amount. These little Eco's only take 2 1/2 gallons of oil. I say, "only" because that's very little compared to a typical big rig engine. Filters are also much cheaper and doing the oil change is relatively easy, compared to the big rigs. There may not be much of an economic advantage here to offset the expense and trouble of engineering the bypass and installing/maintaining one. Wonder if it's reasonable to even find an external oil line you can tap into?
Yeah, the big rig holds 11 gallons. I can see an economic advantage since we've averaged 60,000 miles per year on our current Ram over the past 2 years. And times are slow, so I can see putting even more miles on it. I don't know about finding an external oil line and it looks like these filters are designed for larger trucks than 3 liter, but I think they may work if one can actually hook it up.

Whether your big truck is ISX or d13 powered I'd suggest you consider fleetguard filters. They also stand behind their guarantee. Best filters on the market IMHO.
I guess we don't have a "thumbs up" smiley yet, I was trying to give you one.

The local Amsoil guy here is the biggest dealer in the states and a mechanical engineer who specialized in lubrication at ford for 17yrs. He has a bypass system and is well over 100,000mi on his f350 with same oil. He sends samples to Amsoil just like OP does. I find it amazing they can go so long and people still change oil at 3kmi. I go 20kmi on Amsoil and 15k on their filter. They say the oil is good for 25k but I like to change prior to winter usually and I'm usually around that mileage. Never any issues with it or my vehicle engines.
*sigh* I'm breaking my fingers looking for that "thumbs up" smiley.


If you want to make an effort to obtain oil samples, pay to send it to some lab for analysis, get it back and respond to the results with addatives, filter changes, nothing ...whatever the results dictate...fine. It's your time and money.

For those of us that choose to do nothing, follow the 10,000 mile change recommendation, do it ourselves and/or have a dealer do it, it's also good. There is no compelling evidence that the factory recommendations are wrong and detrimental to the longevity of our engines.

Kind of depends on your priorities and what you like to do with your time and money.
That was another reason I chose this system for the big truck: There's a little spigot on the top that you just open like a tap and fill up the sample bottle. And the UPS and lab fees are waaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than an oil change, so that makes it worth the effort for me.
I would be concerned that your powertrain warranty would not be honored, if something went wrong with the engine internals. You would not be able to show evidence that you performed the recommended routine maintenance.
Nice filters. How do you know that by using Eco-Pur with lab tests etc. you are not reducing the life of your truck? Is Eco-Pur providing any guarantee?
something I think people forget is they have to prove that the failure was do to the oil being the cause of the failure. Now you will have a harder time if you say i change my oil every 25,000 but if you can have the oil analyzed and it shows it is good then its back on them. this would also only come into play if you had a motor failure. another words they can not deny a transmission claim because you don't change your engine oil.
I could not find any information guaranteeing their product, but this is what I found regarding the vehicle warranty:
OPS-1 said:
7. Does the OPS-1 have any adverse effects on an engine?

No, the OPS-1 was designed to function without interfering with engine performance, horsepower, oil
pressure, or other systems.

18. Will the installation of the OPS-1 affect the manufacturer's warranty? Doesn't the engine
manufacturer require oil changes to keep the warranty enforced?

No, installation of the OPS-1 does not affect the manufacturer's warranty. There is a common
misconception that engine warranties will be voided if oil is not changed at periodic mileages
recommended by manufacturers.

The obligation of the engine owner is to properly maintain the oil quality to lubricate the engine. The
engine manufacturer will not honor a warranty claim if oil is not within guidelines and specifications.
Changing oil does not guarantee a warranty claim will be honored.

The OPS-1 will maintain oil quality within guidelines for extended periods, and the oil sample results
will provide a written record of oil quality. The engine manufacturer will request an oil sample to
evaluate the oil quality to ensure the engine was not abused by failure to maintain adequate oil
volume, overheating, intentional abuse etc, before they will approve claim. Changing oil on a periodic
basis does not prevent this type of damage, and the claim will be declined.
You guys are actually forcing me to read more than I had intended on the OPS-1 website! Of course, I would contact them to see if their filter would work with the smaller EcoDiesel. I'm sure they'll tell me yes just to sell me one! But keep the opinions/insights coming. As I'm learning more from you guys, you're also making me learn more by reading their website more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
something I think people forget is they have to prove that the failure was do to the oil being the cause of the failure. Now you will have a harder time if you say i change my oil every 25,000 but if you can have the oil analyzed and it shows it is good then its back on them. this would also only come into play if you had a motor failure. another words they can not deny a transmission claim because you don't change your engine oil.
The recommended oil change interval is in the manual in black and white. If you have an engine failure and can't prove that you changed oil per their recommendations then you are sh*t out of luck. No matter how the oil tests. It will be not be "back on them". This is my opinion but it is based on 20+ years experience as a Dodge service manager.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can't find any case history of any claims/lawsuits. Maybe somebody here who is better at searching can find something?

Meantime, I found this tidbit on the AMSOil website:
AMSOil said:
• Cause of failure is paramount to warranty claim payment.
Vehicle manufacturers warrant their products to be free of defect in manufacture or workmanship. All claims must be
covered unless a vehicle manufacturer proves a failure is lubricant-related. The manufacturer may not arbitrarily blame
a failure on the consumer’s practice of changing oil at extended intervals.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,980 Posts
This may not be a relevant idea but our little diesel engines take some kind of low ash oil. There's only a couple oils approved for our engines. Most all are European/Volkswagon oils not often found and used here.

Will the oil tests being done by these independent filter companies even be able to address the low ash specs. our engine oils are supposed to have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
I don't understand the crazy Euro spec. Every oil made for diesel engines is formulated to be low everything and emission, DPF friendly, they have to be. From what I see anything listed as " Euro " spec. the price goes through the roof. I still think Rotella T6 5w 40 will do fine in this engine and it's cheaper. Maybe the time will come when more oils are available, then the price might come down a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
something I think people forget is they have to prove that the failure was do to the oil being the cause of the failure. Now you will have a harder time if you say i change my oil every 25,000 but if you can have the oil analyzed and it shows it is good then its back on them. this would also only come into play if you had a motor failure. another words they can not deny a transmission claim because you don't change your engine oil.
This is not how it works. If you owe the dealer money you will have to pay them in order to get your truck back. Running around the dealership ranting and threatening re. the Magnuson-Moss warranty act will just get you a ride to police station.

So you go to the dealer and pay for the car. Ask them to clearly document on the paperwork why they don't want to honor the warranty. Then go to ncourt.com and initiate a law suit in small claims (Magistrate's) court. It's easy and cheap. Chances are that once the dealer is served with the lawsuit, the dealer will go ahead and honor the warranty because it's on Chrysler, not them, but just in case...start preparing your case. Remember that every single assertion you are going to tell the judge has to be supported with some kind of documentation. If you say "your honor the sky is blue" you have to be able to prove it with a piece of paper, picture, or have a witness with you supporting your assertion. I'm no lawyer, but I did have to sue someone some years ago in order to get a car back from a shop. I won the case and learned a lot doing it.

If you are worried about the warranty, you might want to think ahead and in the notes of your oil sample submission ask the lab to explicitly state whether or not your oil needs to be changed yet or has more miles left in it. Imagine you are standing in front of the judge with your oil analysis. You really expect the judge to evaluate phrases like "metals are within fleet average?" You want clear phrases that a layman can understand like "oil has thousands more miles left on it." Remember, every assertion you make has to be supported, so you can't simply stand in front of a judge and say "here is my oil analysis report and it says the oil is fine." If you gave that oil analysis report to your mother, would she be able to read it and clearly see that the report says your oil is fine?

Re. the oil filter idea. This thread isn't really about oil filtration, it's about long oil change intervals and oil analysis. Oil ages out in many ways, and particulate matter is only one. The big external filter doesn't bring magic to your oil, it just filters it. So maybe the filter will allow your oil to last longer and maybe it won't...but you certainly cannot assume that the addition of a filter will make your oil last longer. There's just too many other ways for your oil load to age-out.

Changing your oil only when oil analysis directs you to do so is a darn efficient idea. But the cheap way to do it would be to just send samples to a lab per some logical schedule and replace the filter when the lab report says particulate matter is creeping up. If our oil plug is in a protected location than you can also replace it with a valve for easy sampling. Alternately, if we have a dip stick...I say "if" because I've not yet gone looking for mine, you can also use an oil vampire to pull a sample. Just be sure in either case to run the engine for a couple minutes so the oil has a chance to churn a bit so you get a good sample.

There's a number of oil labs but the one I use is Blackstone. Pay the extra $10 for the TBN test for some of your samples to so you can get a feel for how quickly your oil gets acidic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This may not be a relevant idea but our little diesel engines take some kind of low ash oil. There's only a couple oils approved for our engines. Most all are European/Volkswagon oils not often found and used here.

Will the oil tests being done by these independent filter companies even be able to address the low ash specs. our engine oils are supposed to have?
This is probably why the lab I use recommends that you send in a sample of the oil you're using fresh out of the jug as a "base" sample.

Re. the oil filter idea. This thread isn't really about oil filtration, it's about long oil change intervals and oil analysis. Oil ages out in many ways, and particulate matter is only one. The big external filter doesn't bring magic to your oil, it just filters it. So maybe the filter will allow your oil to last longer and maybe it won't...but you certainly cannot assume that the addition of a filter will make your oil last longer. There's just too many other ways for your oil load to age-out.

Changing your oil only when oil analysis directs you to do so is a darn efficient idea. But the cheap way to do it would be to just send samples to a lab per some logical schedule and replace the filter when the lab report says particulate matter is creeping up. If our oil plug is in a protected location than you can also replace it with a valve for easy sampling. Alternately, if we have a dip stick...I say "if" because I've not yet gone looking for mine, you can also use an oil vampire to pull a sample. Just be sure in either case to run the engine for a couple minutes so the oil has a chance to churn a bit so you get a good sample.

There's a number of oil labs but the one I use is Blackstone. Pay the extra $10 for the TBN test for some of your samples to so you can get a feel for how quickly your oil gets acidic.
I actually was talking about filters, too. More specifically "bypass" filters. The one I use on the big truck actually heats the oil and passes it through a filter that goes much smaller on the microns than the regular filter. It's a good deal on a big truck that gets lots of miles piled onto it, but you would have to put a LOT of miles on the EcoDiesel to make it worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Very heistant to run extended drains on these trucks because of the DPF. In regen mode it dumps fuel into the exhaust stroke to clean the DPF this inadvertently will get past the rings and into the oil. You can't filter out fuel from the oil. so if you do decide to extend the drains by any means then get a sample analyzed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,911 Posts
Charliebrown and others,

The Amsoil site has a good explanation on the various European Oil specs as they relate to SAPS. I have copied a portion below, unfortunately the format is inefficient. According to it, I believe the low SAPS is important for our trucks and damage to the particulate filter/soot trap may result from other oils.

A Closer Look at European
Motor Oils and SAPS Content
Low-SAPS
Mid-SAPS
Full-SAPS
Expanding Market
European vehicle market share
has grown steadily over the last
decade, with roughly 10 percent of
all vehicles sold in the U.S. today
bearing a European badge.
What is SAPS?
SAPS stands for sulfated ash,
phosphorus and sulfur. They
comprise a significant portion
of a motor oil’s additive content.
Sulfated ash is not added to oil;
it is the result of additives in the
oil burning and creating ash.
The additives that can produce
ash are most commonly used
for total base number (TBN),
but also help in other areas, like
antioxidancy, anti-wear, cleanliness
and soot handling. Phosphorus
provides anti-wear properties and
further antioxidancy, while sulfur
contributes antioxidancy, anti-wear
properties and engine cleanliness.
SAPS Levels
Given the beneficial properties
these additives impart, it’s easy
to assume a higher concentration
equals a better oil. But higher
SAPS levels can be a detriment to
expensive exhaust devices, such
as diesel particulate filters (DPFs)
and catalysts. The European
Automobile Manufacturers’
Association (ACEA)
and original equipment
manufacturers (OEMs) realized
the importance of using motor
oil formulated with precise SAPS
levels, and lower limits were
established in 2010.
The three different SAPS levels
of European motor oils can be
confusing, especially when
considering the same viscosity
motor oil (5W-40) is available
in mid- and full-SAPS AMSOIL
European Car Formula options.
Finding the Correct Oil
Using an oil with the correct SAPS
level is vital to maximizing the
longevity and performance of
European vehicles.
To determine the correct motor
oil recommendation, consult the
vehicle owner’s manual for the
recommended OEM specification
and viscosity, and match the
corresponding AMSOIL product.
You can also consult the Online
Product Guide at amsoil.com or
MyAMSOILGarage™ to determine
the correct oil.
AMSOIL formulates low-, mid- and
full-SAPS European synthetic
motor oils to satisfy the needs of
all European cars and light trucks.
They are formulated to meet the
unique demands of sophisticated
European vehicles, delivering
excellent all-season performance,
maximum fuel economy and
enhanced turbocharger
protection
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, I just got my sample report back. With 65,000 miles on the oil in the big truck using the EcoPur bypass filter, there is still no adjustments necessary. Yes, that means no filter changes or anything. So even though I spent an extra ~$300 on the synthetic oil, $700 on the filtering system and an astonishing grand to have some "technicians" install it, it's still saving me $thousands in oil changes. And on top of that, my fuel mileage has been a wee bit better over the past couple of months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
We have had people "dump" their oil at 500 and 3,000 miles already on their Ecodiesels. They can do that. it's their engine and their money.

If you want to make an effort to obtain oil samples, pay to send it to some lab for analysis, get it back and respond to the results with addatives, filter changes, nothing ...whatever the results dictate...fine. It's your time and money.

For those of us that choose to do nothing, follow the 10,000 mile change recommendation, do it ourselves and/or have a dealer do it, it's also good. There is no compelling evidence that the factory recommendations are wrong and detrimental to the longevity of our engines.

Kind of depends on your priorities and what you like to do with your time and money.
Well said Captain, I just got my trifold Ram doc and I plan on taking full advantage of my free oil changes, no more, no less. I'm not knocking anyone who wants to put in the extra time and coin to do all that oil testing, hell, wouldn't know what to do with all those test figures anyway.

R
Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
What is all this talk about first 4 oil changes free? I have heard nothing of this.........Thanks
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top