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Oil / Fuel Dilution

17K views 51 replies 25 participants last post by  Jinx  
#1 ·
#8 ·
Opening up the throttle doesn't erase damages done prior. Diluted oil can change from 30w down to 20W or less.
 
#9 ·
Definitely changes my opinion on warm ups... In the cooler temps 5 minutes was all I let it warm up... in the freezing f'n cold -20°C and colder I would go 10-15 minutes but maybe 5-10 minutes is plenty.. Also makes me feel a little better about doing my oil changes every 8000km vs the recommended 16,000KM... I don't care about the minor added expense for that extra peace of mind :)
 
#5 ·
If you do oil testing, you can see if you have fuel contamination in your oil. After my GDE tune, I see much less. I have always been the type who only lets a cold motor warm up for a minute or 2 and then start driving, easy until coolant temp gets to 75-80F then start to drive normally. In about 3 million miles of driving, I 've only had 1 motor fail: A 1974 Mazda with a 13B Rotary blew an apex seal at 240,000 miles! Most of the early Rotaries never made it to 75,000 miles, my secret was cranking up the oil injection metering pump and using Amzoil.
 
#6 ·
That was a great read, thanks.

I had an interesting start up two days ago. We're into the springtime, clear and cold as hell in the morning followed by delightful afternoons. Cold like 5 F.

I went outside to start my truck later in the day, and it was still about 29 F. But the sun shining on my truck, had it warmed up to 52 F ambient , thus no GDE fast idle, it has to be 36 F or less. The trans said 15 F, still cold soaked.

And it took forever to warm up. Hopped in 5 minutes later, when with the fast idle it would be way above 100 F and blowing hot air, but without the fast idle it was still on 100 F and barely blowing warm.

It was a stark comparison, black and white, of how well the fast idle option works. It took so long, and being close eyed on this fuel dilution issue (which I think is possibly the bigger problem), I got a new understanding of stock ED,s, short cold trips, and what's really going on. If you're driving this truck like a commuter car, you're asking for it. Check your oil level! Often! IT's in the book! Read it! I use the Tow/Haul mode, to keep my truck in 7th, it makes a difference warming up when it's going arctic on me.

With the stock regen cycles happening all the time, short commuter trips, cold weather, uncompleted regens, you are thinning your oil. I love the term, "wet stacking". Perfect, it is the term I was looking for. I think I said in another post about uncompleted regens "stacking up".

IF I plug in for 2-3 hours, and it is above zero, I can start to see heat in 5 minutes, in 10 I can see out the windows well enough to drive. Without that fast idle option, I can see problems with that 7 minute max warm up in arctic conditions. Even with the fast idle option, it ain't happening when it's 20 below zero F. You do have to see where you are going, and quite often, you're not going anywhere for 15-20 minutes until the glass is clean, but those are infrequent times it goes down below zero and not everyday. I think the fast idle (1650 rpm) option does a good job of burning up what's going in.

But I do make sure my truck gets hot regardless of conditions. And I check the oil and coolant often. My oil level has remained constant since last fall when I changed it. When it's very cold, it will be just above the "min" line. When I check it 30 minutes after being full hot, like I did yesterday, it will be just below the full line. Thermal expansion. IF you read on the Cummings supplement, you will see they only recommend checking the oil when cold, do to the large amount of oil it uses. Oil will and does expand, as any fluid does, when hot.

Point being, the levels have remained constant throughout the winter. IF you pull your dipstick and when done accurately, with 10.5 quarts/10 liters added, it should be around 1/2 way or less on the stick when cold, but "normal" cold, not 20 below! At least it is on mine. When full hot, it will be right on the full mark, if not a bit above. Now if I go out and check my oil, and it's above full when bone assed cold; "Houston, we have a problem". It can only be one thing, unless it's creamy looking, which would indicate coolant. Fuel dilution, thin oil, and pounded out bearings. And damaged bearings are not going to fail immediately, but at some point, premature failure could be imminent.

Diesel engines of any kind do not like cold, they do not like tepid, they like blistering hot.

Ah, winter is about over. It's only 30 F outside this morning. Breakup is right around the corner!

BTW, my oil still looks opalescent from last fall's oil change, not a lot of miles, about 4000, but a lot of harsh winter driving. Many people do not consider short trips in winter as "harsh" driving, but it is, especially for this truck! Change your oil accordingly. I've had a whole very cold winter of long warm ups. And I will go out of my way to get this engine hot. But I'm still going to change my oil very soon no matter how it looks.

FWIW, on my first oil change, no tune, black as hell at 5200 miles showed no fuel dilution (<0.5%) in my Blackstone report. 2700 of those miles were the drive north from Kellogg, Idaho.

My next Blackstone test will show how well I kept up on burning off any fuel dilution. I'll also make a note to check my oil level after the next regen, out of curiosity sakes.
 
#7 ·
That was a great read, thanks. ...

Diesel engines of any kind do not like cold, they do not like tepid, they like blistering hot.

Ah, winter is about over. It's only 30 F outside this morning. Breakup is right around the corner!

BTW, my oil still looks opalescent from last fall's oil change, not a lot of miles, about 4000, but a lot of harsh winter driving. Many people do not consider short trips in winter as "harsh" driving, but it is, especially for this truck! Change your oil accordingly. I've had a whole very cold winter of long warm ups. And I will go out of my way to get this engine hot. But I'm still going to change my oil very soon no matter how it looks.

FWIW, on my first oil change, no tune, black as hell at 5200 miles showed no fuel dilution (<0.5%) in my Blackstone report. 2700 of those miles were the drive north from Kellogg, Idaho.

My next Blackstone test will show how well I kept up on burning off any fuel dilution. I'll also make a note to check my oil level after the next regen, out of curiosity sakes.
"Opalescent" I'm impressed. Many would have no clue that your oil is still a translucent brown in color after that harsh treatment. Sure a testimony to getting that EGR turned off.

Agree the article is informative. Diesels do like heat, get 'em going and keep 'em going. Roll on.


*** Forgot to reinforce the issue of finishing a regeneration by just keeping the engine at the minimum 1,500 rpm. Sure it works but oil viscosity can be compromised by dilution. Run the snot out of a diesel.
 
#10 ·
That's a good article. My oil level is right at the MAX mark when cold in the morning and has been since new and hasn't moved (only 6000kms on it) with no smell of fuel in it. I plug it in every night and let it warm up or idle 5min or less. Allot of my driving in the winter is "HWY" but back roads at about 60-65mph for a couple hours at a time. I agree, I will just change my oil at 10,000kms rather then 16,000. Could care less of the extra expense, I have a relative that works in parts at my local dealer so I get filters for cheap :)


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#12 ·
about 2% failure rate on the engines. So we would need to see oil samples only on people who drive short distance or in cold weather without the front covers.
 
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#13 ·
I am not really sure who to use in Canada for oil sampling... I work for an authorized CAT dealer so I don't know if a CAT oil sample kit would work through Finning? I could also question the dealership as well and see what their scoop is..
 
#15 ·
I am not really sure who to use in Canada for oil sampling.......
..If you've ever wondered , I went on the Blackstone site , ordered the free kit for oil sample
and it made it to my house in Canada , with return adress , all I have to do is pay for postage back to them
and the price of the analysis ,
question is how much is Canada Post going to charge to send this package to Indiana.
any Canadian member have a Ballpark figure for Canada Post's fee on this ??
..
here is the paperwork included with the kit / bottle /ziplock bag/bigger bottle
the paperwork includes a sample chart , it is not mine ....
 

Attachments

#18 ·
I have sent several samples to Blackstone, and always in the container which was supplied.
Almost ever time, they ask me to pack it in a box. With a bit of an explanation, the agent has always agreed to send it directly in the container.
They seem to struggle with the placement of the mailing sticker.
Cost is around $10.00
 
#20 ·
I'm sure that CAT can sample the oil for you. Cost may be a issue with a dealer. I use Amsoil sample kits shipped to Edmonton Oil Analyzers. Cost is $52 for their pre-paid shipping cost, Currier pickup at your door, or $32 for the non postage paid ones. They are very fast and I have never had a issue with it and they provide good reports and tracking.
 
#23 ·
Return popstage now paid by Blackstone ...for US residents.

on this page : https://www.blackstone-labs.com/information/postal-requirements/

Return postage now paid by Blackstone ....

"" Return postage is now paid by Blackstone.
The labels on our black mailers have a bar code on them.
If you have that sort of label, and you’re mailing your
kit from within the US, you’re all set; just drop the kit in the mail.

If your kits have the old labels,
let us know and we will send you new labels.""
============================================================
for Canadian residents I guess it will also lower cost ...
 
#29 ·
Anybody who says they only warm their truck for a "few minutes" when it's 20 below F or less, don't know what that is about. No way, I call BS. You'll screw around like I did and pop something loose. That something was a rocker arm stud in a chev small block.

Despite block heater, fast idle option, and front cover, there is no way my truck is moving before 15 minutes when it's arctic on me. Why? Because it's too freaking cold and I can't see!! lol.... And my wife will have none of that anyway!

But when it's 20 F and above, 5 minutes is plenty to get it to 130 F.
 
#34 ·
2-5% of ecodiesels are blowing up for some reason. Either bad engine assembly , junk main bearings, or diluted oil.
 
#41 ·
From what I've read;

These engines are very reliable in the UK. It's our EPA tuning requirements that force the engine to be in operation modes that allow for oil dilution. Couple this with the small % of owners who make short trips and the recipe is there for failures. Beyond trading the truck for a something else, you have options.

GDE Tune, ensure you use winter cover in cool weather, try to drive longer distance once a week, engine block heater in cool weather.

I fully expect my tuned truck to last a very long time. Tuned, deleted, and winter covers.
 
#42 ·
I'm the short trip guy but I'm also the short oil change interval guy. If mine has the bearing failure then it's just crap parts. Oil life percentage on mine due to short trips is quick, but idle time in cold weather makes it very quick. When I looked today oil life was 69% with 619 miles on the change. It dropped 3% in 2 days since we had colder weather those days

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
#46 ·
Great read!

I found that to be a great read. Especially since i am new to the Diesel world. This Truck is my first. And hopefully the last. :) Goona do my best to make it go 200k. After reading how the oil dilutes, I think i will be changing my oil a lil more often then 10k, maybe like 8 k. I just turned 10k on the odo, Need to check the oil after having come back from a 500 mile ski trip. I will sample this oil when i take it out. Send it off to Blackstone. I'd like to see how my break in did.

There are more articles on that diesel forum that i read. Had fun checking it all out. Looking forward to learning more as i go. Learning about the different fuel mixes was an eye opener as well.

I did find it a bit disturbing that the "injectors" are not meant to last the live of the engine---- w.t.f.? Can anyone corroborate this?
 
#47 ·
I found that to be a great read. Especially since i am new to the Diesel world. This Truck is my first. And hopefully the last. :) Goona do my best to make it go 200k. After reading how the oil dilutes, I think i will be changing my oil a lil more often then 10k, maybe like 8 k. I just turned 10k on the odo, Need to check the oil after having come back from a 500 mile ski trip. I will sample this oil when i take it out. Send it off to Blackstone. I'd like to see how my break in did.

There are more articles on that diesel forum that i read. Had fun checking it all out. Looking forward to learning more as i go. Learning about the different fuel mixes was an eye opener as well.

I did find it a bit disturbing that the "injectors" are not meant to last the live of the engine---- w.t.f.? Can anyone corroborate this?
I had my truck serviced the other day at a diesel mechanic's shop I trust implicitly. He maintains several fleets of ecodiesels, and many are 2014's. I had him scope my DPF which he says is in very good shape at 28% blockage, especially considering it is a 2014(Thanks GDE). I also asked him how long my injectors would last. His comment is that even the injectors on the ecodiesels that are run ragged all day in the fleet trucks are holding up and should go 500,000 kms as long as you run good fuel and some injector cleaner on an occasional basis. So far so good, and I'm at 187,000 kms.
 
#48 ·
Kneebull I believe if you change your Mopar fuel filter/water separator regularly say every 30k or per your warranty requirements and use newer or reputable high volume stations that injectors etc will last a very long time. At 371k mine were original with no known issues.