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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm poking around the idea of a larger radiator for my 2014. There seems to be larger ones available for the Hemi, but I've not yet found one marketed for us. Looking at pics, the 2014 Hemi rad looks the same as our rad, except the Hemi has a filler cap. Looking at pics isn't a very rigorous comparison tho. If a Hemi rad is a direct fit for us, then a big radiator marketed to them should fit our truck too.

Anyone have experience fitting a Hemi radiator into our truck?
Anyone know of a radiator upgrade marketed for us.

Hemi More Information for ULTRA-POWER 13129
EcoD More Information for ULTRA-POWER 13493
An example of a radiator upgrade 3ROW Aluminum Radiator For 2009-2018 Dodge Ram 1500 2500 3.7L 4.7L 5.7L 2010 PRO | eBay
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I did a bit more research and not everything makes sense. This page is the radiator fitment for the 2014 EcoD and it shows the truck has the V6 gas radiator. 2009-2020 Mopar Engine Cooling Radiator 55056870AF | DodgeParts.com

This page is the radiator fitment for the 2014-18 EcoD and it shows the truck has the Hemi radiator. 2014-2019 Ram Engine Cooling Radiator 68232742AB | DodgeParts.com

Re. buy the ebay radiator and give it a try. Agreed, but folks tend to be kinda casual on ebay re. declaring fitment. Be a bummer if it didn't fit.

Later edit. I went back and looked over the auction again. Is really tempting.
Ebay seller says 1.75" core thickness is which is kinda thin for a triple pass. This seller says 2.2" thickness. https://www.amazon.com/STAYCOO-Aluminum-Radiator-2009-2016-Pickup/dp/B07XG3BSG4/ref=sr_1_27_sspa?

If you look closely at the wording of the ebay and the Amazon ads, there's some interesting parallels. Either it's the same seller, or their getting their marketing text from the same source.
 

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The real issue is the Oil cooler is too small. The Oil temps run away from the coolant temps under heavy loads. My coolant never got over 228F but my oil was sailing north of 260 and rising. I'd say you should look at finding or having made a larger water/oil cooler or install an Air/Oil cooler. once that's solved, the radiator size is likely not going to be a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The real issue is the Oil cooler is too small. The Oil temps run away from the coolant temps under heavy loads. My coolant never got over 228F but my oil was sailing north of 260 and rising. I'd say you should look at finding or having made a larger water/oil cooler or install an Air/Oil cooler. once that's solved, the radiator size is likely not going to be a problem.
We're in a debate re. the oil-water heat exchanger in another thread. No sense fighting about it in 2 places. Consider this tho--there's been two basic car/truck engine cooling designs over the years--Water cooled and air cooled. The reason that the designs don't don't use oil as the primary coolant medium is discussed in the other threads.

Later edit. The "oil temp continued to rise" anecdote is interesting and I don't have a theory that fits. The basic truth that it's water near the hot bits, not oil (exception being piston oil spritz), should make your scenario hard to imagine. When there's a number of systems in play, sometimes things happen that never get figured out.
 

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We're in a debate re. the oil-water heat exchanger in another thread. No sense fighting about it in 2 places. Consider this tho--there's been two basic car/truck engine cooling designs over the years--Water cooled and air cooled. The reason that the designs don't don't use oil as the primary coolant medium is discussed in the other threads.
It has been displayed by several on here that the oil cooler is insufficient. Replace it with air/oil and zero issues. I guess you could replace it with a larger/more efficient oil/coolant cooler, but that would just put more load on the cooling system again.

You are debating shoulds and coulds, there are plenty of people who have gone to an oil/air cooler that left the shoulds and coulds in the past with the success of their new cooling set up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It has been displayed by several on here that the oil cooler is insufficient. Replace it with air/oil and zero issues. I guess you could replace it with a larger/more efficient oil/coolant cooler, but that would just put more load on the cooling system again.

You are debating shoulds and coulds, there are plenty of people who have gone to an oil/air cooler that left the shoulds and coulds in the past with the success of their new cooling set up.
It is interesting that others have had success with oil coolers, I mean "real" oil coolers, not our oil-water heat exchanger, but the purpose of the oil cooler is to reduce peak oil temps. The purpose of a (water) radiator is to cool the engine. Installing a larger radiator looks a lot cheaper and easier then installing a bigger oil cooler and a larger radiator precisely targets my issue--engine temps.

This is a thread about a larger radiator. If we debate other issues in the thread, then every thread becomes the same.

I bought the big radiator up above. Give me a week or two to install it, and I'll report back.
 

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Shaggn your right that was the general consensus last time we got deep into this. Same here heavy load / drag oil temps more issue for me than coolant unless in 100 degrees & sun then it’s both. I remember thinking about trying to stack two of them factory coolers together.

On the Hemi radiator same as with the 4th gen 5th gen ED radiator, all the same size but 4th gen Hemi rated to tow / cool 1500 pounds more than the 4th gen ED 10,700 vs 9,200. Now 5th gen ED rated with 3,000 pounds more towing / cooling in 5th gen with again the same cooling capacity or volume.

If the bigger thicker aftermarket radiator is harder to get more air flow through it may have the opposite than desired affect and heat soak worse. Only the best wishes just sharing my concerns or thoughts.

Boiling hot water put in an igloo cooler stays hot a long time. Leave the lid off point a small fan on it and it cools much faster. The whole point of the radiator is air flow through it to exchange heat. Same igloo open only a cap in the lid.. exchanges heat to air slower than no lid but faster than sealed lid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What coolant temps are you experiencing and what are you trying to keep them to?
I tow a 8000lb enclosed trailer and rarely go over 65mph with it. I keep coolant temps at 225deg or less. That particular # is completely arbitrary, btw. If the ambient temp is >90deg I can't hold 60mph and keep the temp down.

I figure that the thermostat is completely open by 215deg. So at that point the tstat can no longer "manage" coolant temps as designed. In a perfect world, we'd have enough cooling capacity that we'd be able to keep the engine within the tstat's management range. So altho I'm aiming for 225deg as the upper limit, 215 or whatever is fully open for the tstat, would be best.

People that talk about improving cooling capacity by swapping out the tstat don't understand how tstats work.

I have a Laramie. Years ago I swapped the grill out for a Tradesman grill. The improved air flow seem to get me a couple degrees. So now I'll try harder.
 

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When I was running the OEM oil heat exchanger I got the hot oil warning a few times at 265º. Coolant temp wasn't even on the radar. Are you suggesting that a larger radiator would have kept the oil from hitting that 265º mark?

I believe the oil temp sensor is positioned where the oil enters the engine, post heat exchange with the coolant. To me it just seems there's not enough surface area in the OEM heat exchanger to cool the oil sufficiently, regardless the size of the radiator.
 

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I understand, I always thought you were trying to reduce oil temps as that is generally the biggest issue for these trucks.
 

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My external oil cooler has given me the benefit of also reducing my coolant temps. I'm not sure a larger radiator will do anything at all to reduce oil temps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
When I was running the OEM oil heat exchanger I got the hot oil warning a few times at 265º. Coolant temp wasn't even on the radar. Are you suggesting that a larger radiator would have kept the oil from hitting that 265º mark?

I believe the oil temp sensor is positioned where the oil enters the engine, post heat exchange with the coolant. To me it just seems there's not enough surface area in the OEM heat exchanger to cool the oil sufficiently, regardless the size of the radiator.
The most efficient way to cool oil is with an oil cooler--I mean a real one like you've installed. Sure, cooling the engine with a bigger radiator will result in cooler oil, but it won't be a helova lot cooler. Consider the places where oil and water go. Water stays in it's water jacket around the cylinders and over the combustion chamber. At any one point in time, almost all the oil is below the water jacket and therefore is not in an area that water is cooling.

So a person could get a big radiator and get the engine to run 20deg cooler yet only reduce oil peak temps by 5deg. Or a person could put in an oil cooler and make the oil 20-40deg cooler depending on oil cooler's size and airflow.

I pulled all those numbers out of my butt, but they should be in the ballpark.

A lot of heat gets dumped out via the hot oil pan. Scheming re. improving airblast on to the oil pan would make a difference, should anyone be interested in playing around with that idea. I race BMWs and we all use skidplates because the cars are low and track curbing can easily take out an oil pan. We figured out about 10yrs ago that we could remove our oil coolers as long as our skidplates allowed lots of airblast on the oil pan.
 

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I run a winter front 6 months of the year, in Maine. Water and oil temps are always fine at 50F and below, ambient, except for heavy towing. Our aluminum oil pan with such a large capacity for a 3L motor does a good job rejecting heat. Back when I drag raced Dodge hemis, there were a few guys that ran Chrysler 300's and Dodge Magnums ay Laguna Seca and other race courses that ran Mercedes AMG finned differential coolers. Just a bit of aluminum exposed to the slipstream made a big difference.
 

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Shaggn your right that was the general consensus last time we got deep into this. Same here heavy load / drag oil temps more issue for me than coolant unless in 100 degrees & sun then it’s both. I remember thinking about trying to stack two of them factory coolers together.

On the Hemi radiator same as with the 4th gen 5th gen ED radiator, all the same size but 4th gen Hemi rated to tow / cool 1500 pounds more than the 4th gen ED 10,700 vs 9,200. Now 5th gen ED rated with 3,000 pounds more towing / cooling in 5th gen with again the same cooling capacity or volume.

If the bigger thicker aftermarket radiator is harder to get more air flow through it may have the opposite than desired affect and heat soak worse. Only the best wishes just sharing my concerns or thoughts.

Boiling hot water put in an igloo cooler stays hot a long time. Leave the lid off point a small fan on it and it cools much faster. The whole point of the radiator is air flow through it to exchange heat. Same igloo open only a cap in the lid.. exchanges heat to air slower than no lid but faster than sealed lid.
Evaporation does a lot of your igloo hot water cooling when the cover is open and even moreso with the fan.
 

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I came to this thread late but will offer a couple comments anyhow.

1-Remember the stock oil water heat exchanger is also an oil warmer on startup, especially in winter and cold climates.

2-IT seems to me a simple 'fix' that would work for you based upon other people's results would be to abandon your arbitrary water temp limit and accept the factory's limit. I bet you won't see much of a water temp rise and can hold your desired 65 mph and save a lot of work. Remember actual heat exchange is the square of the difference so a 20 degree rise would be about a 33% increase in heat rejection. ( Perhaps a bit less since the air temp going by the radiator will also rise some due to the added heat rejection)

I know you have already bought the new radiator and plan on installing it so good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I came to this thread late but will offer a couple comments anyhow.

1-Remember the stock oil water heat exchanger is also an oil warmer on startup, especially in winter and cold climates.

2-IT seems to me a simple 'fix' that would work for you based upon other people's results would be to abandon your arbitrary water temp limit and accept the factory's limit. I bet you won't see much of a water temp rise and can hold your desired 65 mph and save a lot of work. Remember actual heat exchange is the square of the difference so a 20 degree rise would be about a 33% increase in heat rejection. ( Perhaps a bit less since the air temp going by the radiator will also rise some due to the added heat rejection)

I know you have already bought the new radiator and plan on installing it so good luck.
Re. cold weather and the oil warmer. We live in coastal GA. Doesn't get that cold.

Re. Abandon my arbitrary temp limit. <shrugs shoulders> but I like it. It irritates me that the truck's coolant temp so easily gets hotter than the tstat can manage. Certainly more heat gets dumped as the water gets hotter, but my recollection is that the relationship is linear, not exponential.

To me coolant temp is more important than oil temp. Modern oils can withstand quite high temps w/o trouble. 25yrs ago, in the last years of air cooled Porsches, they'd have laughed over our concerns re. 250deg oil. They were running 275deg oil day after day, and our oil chemistry is a lot better than there's was. But coolant temp means something. Our AL head, for example, is sure to expand more than our block when hot and the headgasket has to make up the difference. Every time they get hot, they stress their HG. Keeping an engine cool is more important than keeping the oil cool.

I'll install the radiator and this summer we'll see how it impacts coolant temps.
 

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Re. cold weather and the oil warmer. We live in coastal GA. Doesn't get that cold.

Re. Abandon my arbitrary temp limit. <shrugs shoulders> but I like it. It irritates me that the truck's coolant temp so easily gets hotter than the tstat can manage. Certainly more heat gets dumped as the water gets hotter, but my recollection is that the relationship is linear, not exponential.

To me coolant temp is more important than oil temp. Modern oils can withstand quite high temps w/o trouble. 25yrs ago, in the last years of air cooled Porsches, they'd have laughed over our concerns re. 250deg oil. They were running 275deg oil day after day, and our oil chemistry is a lot better than there's was. But coolant temp means something. Our AL head, for example, is sure to expand more than our block when hot and the headgasket has to make up the difference. Every time they get hot, they stress their HG. Keeping an engine cool is more important than keeping the oil cool.

I'll install the radiator and this summer we'll see how it impacts coolant temps.
Your not wrong on oil chemistry, but the bottom line is you will hit a REAL limit at 265* oil temp that will pullback fueling. If I recall, GDE bumps the EGT allowance a bit because their tune runs a bit hotter. I'm sure they could do the same thing if they felt there was lee-way for oil temps, but they don't. You could probably find a tuner to up the oil temp limit if you would like.

As far as coolant temps, there have been millions of miles towing with Ecodiesels and have heard of "practically" no issues caused by high coolant temps. No blown head gaskets, no warped/cracked heads, no welded pistons.

There are plenty of reports of hitting the oil temp limit though. There is lots of sound data (although not exactly scientific) backing up what everyone is saying. But it's your money and your free to do as you please. My gut tells me you won't be able to stay in your ideal temp range and ever get close to the oil temp limit and I believe you'll be disappointed with how much speed/power you'll gain by staying in that temp range.

Either way good luck on your endeavor and I applaud you for trying something different. I look forward to seeing the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Your not wrong on oil chemistry, but the bottom line is you will hit a REAL limit at 265* oil temp that will pullback fueling. If I recall, GDE bumps the EGT allowance a bit because their tune runs a bit hotter. I'm sure they could do the same thing if they felt there was lee-way for oil temps, but they don't. You could probably find a tuner to up the oil temp limit if you would like.

As far as coolant temps, there have been millions of miles towing with Ecodiesels and have heard of "practically" no issues caused by high coolant temps. No blown head gaskets, no warped/cracked heads, no welded pistons.

There are plenty of reports of hitting the oil temp limit though. There is lots of sound data (although not exactly scientific) backing up what everyone is saying. But it's your money and your free to do as you please. My gut tells me you won't be able to stay in your ideal temp range and ever get close to the oil temp limit and I believe you'll be disappointed with how much speed/power you'll gain by staying in that temp range.

Either way good luck on your endeavor and I applaud you for trying something different. I look forward to seeing the results.
I'm not saying our engines are blowing up due to overheats. I'm saying that 230deg coolant is more stressful to the engine then 260deg oil. Just because the engine survives the stress doesn't change the idea that one temp is stressful and the other is no big deal.

I don't care about the 265deg oil temp derating because I can prevent that with my gas pedal.

It sounds to me like people have decided that 264deg oil is bad. That is to say "since the engine derates at 265deg, hot oil is therefore bad." Consider looking harder at that. Ask yourself, why is 264deg oil bad?

It may well be that 265deg was chosen because the engineers imagined that a healthy engine wouldn't get that hot in normal usage. Seems like they were wrong about that. In that scenario, they would have imagined 265deg oil would have been a symptom of some other problem that threatened to take out the engine.

Example. In our race cars we routinely install a coolant pressure switch wired to a big light on the dash. We've found that slow coolant leaks are one of the top engine killers and the coolant temp sensor provides no warning. This is because the steadily reduced coolant level drops away from the temp sensor. By the time oil temps come up significantly, and this is slow both because oil absorbs heat slowly and it's not oil that surrounds the cylinders and combustion chamber, the engine is toast. My point is that the high oil temp, in the scenario, is a symptom of some other problem. Maybe that "warn of a different problem" is what the engineers were thinking before they later underspec'd our radiator for the additional heatload from the turbo, failed to spec an oil cooler, and chose a derate oil temp that failed to account for the inadequate cooling.

In the pic below, the coolant pressure light is circled.
88761
 
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