RAM 1500 Diesel Forum banner

221 - 240 of 270 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
I little update on my setup with a Derale 40 rows oil cooler. Finally had the chance to tow and it was a heavy load. I had a 7100 Lbs forklift loaded on a 2600 Lbs trailer, so it was a 9700 Lbs total. Went from Vegas to Barstow to pick it up. On the way to Barstow with the empty trailer I did reach 250F at the Mountain Pass right past the state line. That worried me, I knew on the way back I will have a problem. The oil did reach twice 265F and had to stop to let the oil cool off down to 215 before hitting the road again, I did crawl up with 35 Mph I believe it was in 4th gear.
So heavy towers the derale cooler without a fan will not work for you. On the flat road the oil temp was staying at 215-217F and it was just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,921 Posts
I little update on my setup with a Derale 40 rows oil cooler. Finally had the chance to tow and it was a heavy load. I had a 7100 Lbs forklift loaded on a 2600 Lbs trailer, so it was a 9700 Lbs total. Went from Vegas to Barstow to pick it up. On the way to Barstow with the empty trailer I did reach 250F at the Mountain Pass right past the state line. That worried me, I knew on the way back I will have a problem. The oil did reach twice 265F and had to stop to let the oil cool off down to 215 before hitting the road again, I did crawl up with 35 Mph I believe it was in 4th gear.
So heavy towers the derale cooler without a fan will not work for you. On the flat road the oil temp was staying at 215-217F and it was just fine.
Bat.... If you are going to regularly pull loads like that you need a 2500. Where you are is not only hot but can be seriously steep and into the wind. No way is a little 1500 up to the task of regularly pulling near 10K under those conditions. That fact that you did it with a little 3.0L engine is testimony to how strong the little thing actually is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
Hi Cap I agree with you, but that trip is only 160 miles one way and I only tow less than once a year:). The transmission temp did not go over 195F. On the same road without a trailer the highest I have seen with the derale cooler is 231F when climbing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
My cooling saga continues. I purchased the derale 40 row with the built in fan, but after getting it and looking it over I decided I didn't want it. I've been pulling my hair out trying to work with the guy at CTF to get the same cooler Bounty has, but he wont talk to me on the phone, one sentence emails, wont sell me the cooler I asked for....yada yada. I gave up...twice on him. Then today out of a bit of luck I found this:

https://www.anfittingsdirect.com/oil-coolers/air-to-water-heat-exchanger-p-1026.html

No doubt, this is Bounty's cooler. They have two, this one at 3.5" wide and a smaller one at 2" wide. I picked this up and two AN to NPT fittings shipped to my door for $210. The Derale was $300 from Summit. I'm pretty happy right now. I hope to have it next week and get everything installed next weekend. I'll report back at that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #225 ·
My cooling saga continues. I purchased the derale 40 row with the built in fan, but after getting it and looking it over I decided I didn't want it. I've been pulling my hair out trying to work with the guy at CTF to get the same cooler Bounty has, but he wont talk to me on the phone, one sentence emails, wont sell me the cooler I asked for....yada yada. I gave up...twice on him. Then today out of a bit of luck I found this:

https://www.anfittingsdirect.com/oil-coolers/air-to-water-heat-exchanger-p-1026.html

No doubt, this is Bounty's cooler. They have two, this one at 3.5" wide and a smaller one at 2" wide. I picked this up and two AN to NPT fittings shipped to my door for $210. The Derale was $300 from Summit. I'm pretty happy right now. I hope to have it next week and get everything installed next weekend. I'll report back at that point.
What are you going to do with these? You can't just plumb then in, in series, with the radiator. They won't flow enough. They'd work fine as oil coolers but the 1/2NPT fittings won't flow nearly enough for coolant. Even connecting them in parallel would probably not provide enough flow rate. A radiator hose is a helova lot larger than 1/2NPT.

That said, I do like your idea of an aux cooler, but just get some little radiator with big ports like 1.75" or something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #228 ·
Sorry.....This will be used as an engine oil cooler.
I hate to be the bearer of sad tidings, but you won't make much money with that either. You will get oil temps down a bit, but it won't do anything for coolant temps. I tried all this in my race car years ago. What I learned is that oil doesn't move heat energy around much. The engine isn't designed to dump it's heat into the oil, it's designed to dump it's heat into the water. Oil is slow to accept heat energy, and in the oil cooler, it's slow to dump heat energy.

A big (coolant) radiator will help keep oil temps down because the engine will run cooler. But a big oil cooler won't keep coolant temps down worth a darn.

There isn't a lot of value in cooling the oil either. Modern oil can stand very high temps. The air cooled crowd think nothing of 275deg F oil. So, sure, you'll drop steady-state oil temps by prob 15deg, but the actual utility of that is limited. You'll add a bit of oil visc, that's about it.

I did a lot of testing of oil coolers about a decade ago. I could vary the oil temp all over the map. But nothing I did varied coolant temp.

Here's an example. I put temp sensors at the oil cooler input/output of the BMW race car. I was getting 2deg of cooling. But the oil was so slow to pick up heat energy in the engine, that it would come back only warmed by about a single degree. Then I'd get 2deg of cooling again. As a result of the very slow heat xfer rate, a steady state oil temp was reached that was a full 14deg less than no oil cooler at all. But not because my oil cooler was so fabulous, but because oil was such a crappy heat xfer medium and the engine was so completely not designed to dump heat into the oil, that over time the -2deg/pass summed up to appreciable oil cooling.

Because the oil wasn't hardly pulling squat worth of heat energy out of the engine, the coolant did not get cooler.

Re. engines being designed to dump heat energy into coolant not oil. Consider the design of the water jack in the block and head. The combustion chambers are almost entirely surrounded by flowing water. Pretty much all the heat energy has to get thru water before it finds oil to warm up. Water cooled engines are designed to efficiently dump their heat to the water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
The whole radiator part of this thread got derailed about 20 pages ago when it turned to focusing on dropping oil temps. I think we are all in agreement that 275* is just fine for our oil temps.....well except RAM who defuels us at 266ish. So the entire last 20 pages of this thread have been about dropping oil temps to keep from defueling during heaving towing. This cooler seems to be proven in doing that. My coolant temps are fine in stock form. Very seldom see over 230* and transmission temps never go over 204* while towing my 8600 pound boat and trailer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
RangerGress I tend to disagree with your statement. You are saying the combustion chambers are surrounded by water which is partially correct. The bottom of the piston is also part of that chamber and and it is cooled by oil. According to your statement we do not even need the factory oil cooler??
Oil may be slow in releasing the heat, but you can compensate with oversized oil cooler.

Unstuck I would recommend that you check on what pressure this radiator is rated for. Cooling systems do not reach 100 Psi. Also since it is for coolant the passages in it might be narrower and therefore it might restrict the oil flow at low engine temps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #231 ·
The whole radiator part of this thread got derailed about 20 pages ago when it turned to focusing on dropping oil temps. I think we are all in agreement that 275* is just fine for our oil temps.....well except RAM who defuels us at 266ish. So the entire last 20 pages of this thread have been about dropping oil temps to keep from defueling during heaving towing. This cooler seems to be proven in doing that. My coolant temps are fine in stock form. Very seldom see over 230* and transmission temps never go over 204* while towing my 8600 pound boat and trailer.
Ah so. Well, then drive on. Your oil cooler idea will certainly drop oil temps significantly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
Discussion Starter · #232 ·
RangerGress I tend to disagree with your statement. You are saying the combustion chambers are surrounded by water which is partially correct. The bottom of the piston is also part of that chamber and and it is cooled by oil. According to your statement we do not even need the factory oil cooler??
Oil may be slow in releasing the heat, but you can compensate with oversized oil cooler.

Unstuck I would recommend that you check on what pressure this radiator is rated for. Cooling systems do not reach 100 Psi. Also since it is for coolant the passages in it might be narrower and therefore it might restrict the oil flow at low engine temps.
We don't have an oil cooler. This has been wrangled over time and again. What we have is an oil warmer. It's designed to help cold start oil temps rise quickly for mpg reasons. If RAM had really wanted to use the cooler to cool the oil, they would have plumbed the oil into the radiator, like many autotrannies are plumbed. All you have to do to see this is look at the tiny thing. Oil, because it doesn't move heat well, requires a lot of surface area to xfer heat unless you have a really big heat delta. 190deg water will heat up 0dg oil in that itty bitty thing. But 220deg water will not cool down 240deg oil using the same heat xfer surface area.

Under what conditions will our oil pressure hit 100psi? You have tested this how? We should have at least one pressure relief valve, and it wouldn't surprise me if we had 2. They're probably set to open at around 60 psi. Certainly no more than 70psi.

Unstuck, it wouldn't be crazy to put in a temp senstive bypass valve where you plumb your system into the block. That way oil only routes to your coolers once the oil warms up. That way thick and cold oil doesn't get pushed into the oil coolers, with all the pressure waves that implies. That's the normal way to plumb in an oil cooler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Unstuck I would recommend that you check on what pressure this radiator is rated for. Cooling systems do not reach 100 Psi. Also since it is for coolant the passages in it might be narrower and therefore it might restrict the oil flow at low engine temps.
Can there be any doubt that this is Bounty's cooler? I was planning on putting shop air to it to check the pressure, and for leaks. In the end, if it is the same as Bounty's we should be good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
Dear, RangerGress I have seen the pressure go up to 99 PSi when engine is cold, I have a real pressure gauge which tells me what the pressure is. You have a good point on the oil warmer and I agree with you, but why is everybody even on Mopar websites calling the "oil warmer", "Oil Cooler"???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
Unstuck, it wouldn't be crazy to put in a temp senstive bypass valve where you plumb your system into the block. That way oil only routes to your coolers once the oil warms up. That way thick and cold oil doesn't get pushed into the oil coolers, with all the pressure waves that implies. That's the normal way to plumb in an oil cooler.
I have one ready to go in.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,561 Posts
Well Mopar calls it an oil cooler. OEM Part Number: 68229403AA I agree it's capable of warming the oil with the engine coolant, but also will cool the hot oil with engine coolant as required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,220 Posts
I hate to be the bearer of sad tidings, but you won't make much money with that either. You will get oil temps down a bit, but it won't do anything for coolant temps..
Dang, someone forgot to tell my truck that the big oil cooler won't lower both oil and coolant temps. My coolant is no longer heat-soaked by the high oil temps, thus resulting in lower coolant temps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,220 Posts
Unstuck, it wouldn't be crazy to put in a temp senstive bypass valve where you plumb your system into the block. That way oil only routes to your coolers once the oil warms up. That way thick and cold oil doesn't get pushed into the oil coolers, with all the pressure waves that implies. That's the normal way to plumb in an oil cooler.
It's called a thermostat (crazy, I know), and I run a Derale oil thermostat to assist with warm-up. The thermostat allows 10% fluid passage when closed to maintain pressure and prevent air pockets. Because of this, I run my winter grille cover below 50 degrees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,220 Posts
Unstuck, that looks just like mine, great find. I can measure mine to be sure.

CFT is a great company, but they don't spend much time on one-off stuff if you're not local. I have the benefit of being able to stop in their shop anytime.
 
221 - 240 of 270 Posts
Top