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Discussion Starter #1
So for starters, My truck (Silver) is a 2015 Bighorn, Crew Cab, 6'4" bed, 4x4, 3.55 ratio. I special ordered in November of 2014 and picked it up in December of 14. It now has 83000 miles on it, 78000 of them completely stock and trouble free. I've been lurking around this forum since early 2015 but just recently started posting.

Around January, at about 78000 miles, I started noticing a high frequency vibration that I felt in the gas pedal and floorpan. The only way I can describe it is like somebody put an electric razor under the gas pedal. After a test drive my dad, a retired (after 35 years) Chrysler tech felt it also. So off to the dealer I went, but the tech (who worked with my dad and I trust completely) couldn't feel it, and while he never said "there's nothing wrong" all he could offer was "drive it till it gets worse"; I can't really blame him so that's what I did. Then I started searching through the forums and found only 2 very early (2014/2015) posts with guys complaining of the same problem, but with no resolution. So I started paying much closer attention to how Silver was running and doing my own diagnosis. I bought an OBD reader and an Edge CTS2 based on recommendations from threads here.

By the end of February I was pretty confident I had it pinpointed as a fuel injector issue; based on worsening fuel mileage, high regen frequency, high EGTs (1000 deg when cruising and over 1200 on the slightest incline), and the fact that the vibration was only present when fuel timing was advanced 5 degrees or more (based on the OBD reader), which also coincided with the higher EGTs. And then a new problem crept up; all of a sudden I had a rough idle or "shudder" on cold starts. So back to the forums I went, and found a TSB for 2014 model year trucks which matched my "shudder" symptoms to a T. It didn't match the electric razor vibration though.

I also had a family trip coming up and knew Silver was going to make a run to Florida, so by the end of March with my data, diagnosis and TSB in hand, I called the dealership to make an appointment. My regular dealer was booked solid so I had to go to a different one to get Silver fixed up before the trip.

The week of March 25th (exact date unknown) I called to make an appointment and scheduled for the first available date, April 4th. I wanted the maintenance done (I have a maintenance package so it’s already paid for) as well as the vibration, and the shudder diagnosed and repaired.

I gave them all my diagnostic data and the TSB and asked that a thorough diagnosis be done regarding the vibration and shudder. I went for a test drive with the tech and told him the TSB was for the Shudder, but I believed the vibration was a separate issue and I suspected fuel injector(s). I told the service writer when I made the appointment and when I dropped off the truck that I needed it back by April 19th so whatever they did had to be done by then. They had 2 weeks.

April 8th or 9th: I got a call from the service writer saying the maintenance was done, they thought the vibration was from the DPF and SCR being loose and they would replace them under warranty. They couldn’t reproduce the shudder, and “the TSB doesn’t apply to your model year” so “there’s nothing wrong”.

When I asked if they had done any other diagnosis for the vibration or shudder, they said no and they weren't going to do anything either. I was not happy but consented to have them do the DPF and SCR. They said they had to order parts and would let me know when it was done.

April 12th: They called to say Silver was ready. Then called again at 5pm to say they couldn't release it to me because there was warranty paperwork with Chrysler that hadn't been finished yet. This pissed me off because they already told me it was ready to go, why all of a sudden is there paperwork with Chrysler that isn't done? I came by to test drive it anyway, to make sure it was right, but didn’t make it a block down the road and the check engine light came on. I went back and told them it wasn't right and they had me talk to the Service Director. He assured me they would get to the bottom of it, make everything right, and he would make sure they do the extra diagnosis I asked about originally. He assured me my truck would be 100% right by the 19th.

April 15th: The Service Director called to tell me the check engine light was for a DPF sensor that went bad, they would replace it under warranty. Parts had to be ordered and they would let me know when it was done.

April 19th: SD called to say the truck was ready, and he had the guys hand wash it for me. But he also said they didn't do the extra diagnosis I asked for (even though he said they would), they weren't going to do it, He personally drove my truck and there was nothing wrong with it and the TSB I gave them didn’t apply to my truck. I picked it up at 5pm. I wasn't impressed with the wash; an automatic car wash does a better job. As I drove away, I knew it still wasn't fixed right and I went back to tell the SD, but couldn't leave it with him any longer because of my trip. He told me he would set up an appointment with the Chrysler Regional Tech so I could talk to him and have him look at the truck.

Either later that evening or over the weekend, I noticed that my passenger side power running board wouldn't extend, and I assumed it was just mis-aligned. When I got under the truck to align it I noticed there was a 1/2"-3/4" diameter hole punched in the bottom of the board. I checked the drivers side board and it was dented in the same location. I took my truck back in on Monday, April 22nd, and told the SD my running boards were damaged. He looked at it, took responsibility, apologized and said he would replace them. I gave him the necessary information to order the parts as they are Amp Research boards that I installed myself.

I left for my trip on April 24th and returned on May 10th. All the issues persisted during the trip, most notably an all highway 21mpg. Truck was loaded with 3 people (including driver) and luggage for 3 weeks. Not too heavy, and nothing that others haven’t gotten at least 25mpg.

May 13th: I called SD to ask if the running board parts were in and when could we set up an appointment to meet with the Chrysler Regional Tech. He said he didn't have the running boards yet, and he wanted to wait until they were in to schedule the appointment with the CRT to have everything done all at once. I agreed.

May 20th (1 week later): I called SD and he said he didn't have the running boards yet

May 27th (another week later): I called again, but still no running boards.

June 3rd (another week later): Another call and still no running boards. I told him when I ordered them originally it was a 3 day delivery. I offered to buy them again and he could reimburse me. He said no, he would take care of it.

June 6th or 7th: SD called me to say the running boards were in and we made an appointment for 8am Wednesday, June 26th to replace the running boards and work with the CRT.

June 26th: I had to take time off work to be there at 8am, but CRT wasn't there and when I asked SD where he was, he said CRT would be in around 9 or a little later. WE HAD AN APPOINTMENT SCHEDULED AT 8AM! I TOOK OFF WORK TO BE HERE AT 8AM! WHY THE F&$K ISN'T HE HERE AT 8AM?!

So I said ok, lets do the running boards now while we wait, so I'm not sitting here with my thumb up my a$$! and SD said, oh, well I don't have a tech available right now, if you want to leave your truck we can take care of it this afternoon. Again, I MADE AN APPOINTMENT FOR 8AM! NOT WHENEVER THE F&$K YOU FEEL LIKE IT! So I told SD to forget about the running boards, I would take them home and do them myself.

CRT showed up a little after 9am, I talked with him, gave him the maintenance and repair history of the truck, explained the symptoms I was experiencing, gave him all the same data I gave SD back in April and more that I had collected since then. We went for a test drive, he plugged in his computer and took some data. Then announced "There's an injector correction factor out of spec". I wanted to scream "I F&$KING TOLD YOU SO!" at everybody in the building, because I said back in April that there was an injector issue. CRT said he wanted more diagnosis done to determine the actual issue. But surprise again, SD doesn't have a tech available till July 8th! (I'm tired of the "Whenever we feel like it" mentality of scheduling repairs.) We set up an appointment for the 8th and I asked specifically for a Ram 1500 loaner vehicle, as I knew I would be without my truck for a week at least, and couldn't be without the capability of a pickup truck.

Also, by now I’m reading the AEM horror stories from a lot of you and dreading what it will do to Silver. So I tell SD and CRT that I don’t want the AEM done until I’m satisfied that Silver is 100% back to normal. They agree.

July 8th: I drop Silver off, ask again to make sure the loaner is a Ram, but all they have available is a Jeep Wrangler. "you can take the wrangler, or take your truck back and make another appointment later". Also, at this time I knew I was going to be moving to a new job, and the new employer is in the complete opposite direction of this dealer (near my old job). So I told SD I needed my truck back by July 19th because that was my last day in the area, and it would be extremely inconvenient for me to come back to get my truck after that. He said "no problem" but I knew he was full of sh!t.

Side Note: During the 7 weeks I was without my truck I did need a truck on several occasions, and as I didn't have mine, I was inconvenienced by having to make other arrangements which also cost me money. Money that I wouldn't have had to spend if I had a Ram for a loaner like I asked.

July 10th: I drove by to see Silver parked in the same place it was when I dropped it off on the morning of the 8th. I went in and asked SD what was going on and why hadn't it been worked on? He said Chrysler told him to not do any more diagnosis, and that they were going to replace the heads on the engine according to a TSB. THE SAME TSB THAT I GAVE HIM BACK IN APRIL! I F&$KING TOLD YOU SO, AGAIN! I asked why he didn't call me to tell me that and his response was "I didn't have any new information, so I couldn't give you an update." So apparently "Chrysler told me not to do anything and they're going to replace the heads" is not important enough information to give me an update.

July 12th: I called again and SD said Chrysler had given approval for the repair, the parts were on order and would be in in a week.

July 19th: I call because the parts are supposed to be in. SD says "we didn't get the heads and they're on national backorder, so we don't know when we'll have them" How come it took you a week to find out they're on national backorder!? I told SD I didn't care if they were on backorder, he had better do everything in his power to get the heads as soon as possible. He said he had my truck listed as "Vehicle Off Road" so Chrysler would prioritize the parts to it. I tell him I'm tired of the excuses, I don't want to hear about any more delays, and I don't care what he has to do to find the heads but he better do it fast.

July 25th (thursday): SD called me to say he found the heads at other dealers and was having them sent to him; they would be in Monday (July 29th).

July 29th: One head showed up, but the other was delayed a day

July 30th: Second head didn't show up

July 31st: Still no head

August 1st: the second head finally shows up. But SD doesn't have a tech available till Monday, again with “We’ll get to it when we feel like it”! At this point Silver has been sitting at the dealer for almost a month and nothing has been done. In my opinion, if a vehicle sits for that long essentially waiting in line for work to be done; once the parts show up it should be the #1 priority of the entire shop. Get a tech on it now, this vehicle is his only priority, if he needs anything, get it to him ASAP, this vehicle won't wait any longer. SD's "We'll get to it when we feel like it" mentality is really pissing me off.

August 6th (Tuesday): Silver is finally in the shop, a little after noon.

August 7th: By 5pm the Cab is off. A side note, this is not the first time the Cab has been off, and I know the first time it only took 2 hours to do (at my usual dealer, by the trusted tech). So why did it take 1 1/2 days this time? Either this tech has no clue what he's doing, or he's working on other jobs and only working on this in his down-time. Again with the "We'll get to it when we feel like it" attitude.

August 8th: One head is off

August 9th (friday): the other head is off. I make a surprise visit to see the progress. While I'm there SD says he needs the loaner vehicle back and he'll give me a different one. I ask again for a Ram and he says he doesn't have one, again. Still stuck in a Wrangler.

August 12th: One new head is on

August 13th: the Second new head is on. With only a little progress being made each day, I'm still getting the "We'll get to it when we feel like it" vibe, despite my daily phone calls and pushing to get it done.

August 14th: a little more progress

August 15th (thursday): About 6pm SD calls me to say Silver is all back together and running good. We schedule for me to come by on monday to test drive it and make sure I'm happy with it before doing the AEM.

August 19th: I coordinate with SD and say I'll be in around 6pm to test drive the truck. I show up at 6:04, SD is nowhere to be found. I find one person who tells me "he just left", so now I'm pissed cause we scheduled 6pm and he already left for the day. To top it off it seems like nobody has any clue why I'm there. After talking to 4 different people, I find the one service writer who knows what's going on because SD explained it to him. Finally go on the test drive and I'm very impressed with how Silver runs and drives; it's a night and day difference from the truck I dropped off 7 weeks earlier. I knew I still had to leave it there for the AEM, but since I was happy with the repair I gave approval for the recall to be done the next day, and I would pick it up that night.

August 20th: I call SD because I'm still pissed off by the fact that he left before I showed up the night before. He said he had a prior commitment, and I said that's fine, but I was expecting to deal with you, only to find you weren't there. You could have told me when we talked on the phone that you wouldn't be there but that you had arranged everything. He said he did arrange everything and he told several people about it, so they would know what to do when I got there. I told him it certainly didn't seem that way, because only the one service writer knew, everybody else were deer in the headlights. I was trying to chew him out but he kept interrupting me and just saying "ok great, I'm glad your happy with your truck, talk to you later" then he hung up.

A different service writer called me a couple hours later to tell me everything was done, and I could pick up my truck. So I got there around 6pm again, and went home with Silver.

August 20-22: Silver ran great when I picked it up and the average mpg was climbing past 22mpg; up from 15 when I picked it up, and better than the 21 I was getting before I dropped it off. But on Thursday the 22nd it quickly reverted to what it was before I dropped it off, and the average mpg fell back to 20.

For 4 months of hassle I feel like I've gotten nowhere. Yesterday I put the the GDE hot tune and trans tune and I’m definitely seeing an improvement, but the vibration is still there and I can’t help but wonder if it could be better if I could just get this problem fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
TL;DR:

I new something was wrong with my truck, took it to the dealer in April and they said “nothing is wrong”. I fought and complained for 3 months, and they (and Chrysler) finally admitted it was not running right and agreed to fix it under warranty. Then it sat at the dealer for 5 weeks waiting for parts and took another 2 weeks to do the work. It ran great for a few days but now feels just like it did before it was fixed.

So what do you think? Is it worth the additional hassle with a different dealer (and Chrysler) to have it fixed again?
 

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Man that is a saga more than a story. There's so much that could be an issue it's doubtful a single person reading all this can figure it out. Some smarts are here but you have a lot of people doing things.

Go to the other dealer. A fresh look at the issue just may be the right way to go.
 

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Helluva write-up. I'd send it as is (minus the GDE part) to FCA Customer Care...just maybe there's some relief. I also agree with Cap...take it to the guy you trust. j

Now, just out of curiosity, did they replace the injectors or just use the old ones in the new heads? Seems that was the origin of the problem...
 

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Helluva write-up. I'd send it as is (minus the GDE part) to FCA Customer Care...just maybe there's some relief. I also agree with Cap...take it to the guy you trust. j

Now, just out of curiosity, did they replace the injectors or just use the old ones in the new heads? Seems that was the origin of the problem...
Yep, that's what I was thinking. I recommend to everyone that you mark the parts that are to be replaced. Easy then to tell if they were really replaced. OPs experience is pretty common at dealer service departments.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I actually sent all this (minus GDE) to Customer Care before posting it here. I also put it in my survey for the service visit, and sent it to the dealer "Customer Relations Manager". I have already made sure everybody that matters knows I'm not happy.

They did not replace the injectors. I was pushing them to, but they denied it. Their reasoning was just because the injector correction factor is off doesn't mean the injector(s) is bad, it could mean the injectors are compensating for some other error. If that error is repaired, the correction factor should normalize. When I picked it up I thought maybe they were right because it was running so well. Now I'm not so sure.
 

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Helluva write-up. I'd send it as is (minus the GDE part) to FCA Customer Care...just maybe there's some relief. I also agree with Cap...take it to the guy you trust. j

Now, just out of curiosity, did they replace the injectors or just use the old ones in the new heads? Seems that was the origin of the problem...
I dealt with customer care on two issues with my 15 ED "one of them being engine failure" and they were absolutely worthless. It all depends on who gets assigned to your case so it's a roll of the dice.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I know customer care, customer relations, etc. won't do any good. especially since according to them the job is done and I'm "happy". I sent it to them more as a way of venting my frustration than anything else.

Now I'm contemplating...

Option 1: drive it as is, and trade it for a 2020 when they come out. I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the 2020, or the smaller seats, but it would allow me to have a truck with the options I want (and regret not getting on Silver) with no headache

Option 2: see if I can get the injectors replaced under warranty and leave everything else as is

Option 3: have the injectors replaced, and foot the bill because while it's apart I might as well:

add a Banks intake (i know they don't offer much benefit, but they look cool :) )
and delete the egr (because there's no reason to keep it)
and If i go that far i might as well do a full delete...

I could keep going but you all know where this rabbit hole goes lol

edit:

I also want to say thanks to all of you here. the knowledge and experience on this forum are second to none, and I don't think I could have gotten this far in this saga without this resource

thanks.gif
 

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I think I would get the 2020 when it comes out. There should be no worries, hopefully, with the Gen 3 engines.
 

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I think I would get the 2020 when it comes out. There should be no worries, hopefully, with the Gen 3 engines.
Yeah right - until the reluuctor ring goes. Then you have the Bosch CP4 and it’s questionable reliability. New parts, like the turbo, can be a surprise. Now we also have t deal with two EGR systems and whether we can tune them off.
 

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If you're thinking of trading it in, then don't delete anything. Supposedly, the dealerships aren't supposed to take vehicles with those type(s) of modifications in as trades.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The Saga Continues:

My radio apparently needed an update that didn't work correctly and I had to call customer care for help. The guy I talked to was very helpful in getting the update started, and once it was running he mentioned I have another open case...

I explained the history, and again repeated that I'm not happy with the results. His response started with the usual "i'm sorry to hear that" etc. but the he followed up with "here's how you take it to the next level". he seemed very knowledgeable, and apologized for their mishandling of my case. he told me that anybody I had talked to previously was incompetent and they didn't pass my case onto a case manager as it should have been.

So tomorrow I will be making an appointment at another dealer and following up with customer care to have a case manager assigned. I'll keep updating here as things progress
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It's been a while since I updated this, a whole lot of nothing has happened so here goes.

I made the appointment, and had a case manager assigned. Since this is a different dealer I gave them the history, and asked that the first thing they check be the injector correction factor. My thinking was since that was a known issue before, maybe it was the problem again. After some argument they agreed to check it, but it was fine. 1 point for the TSB, and I'm back to the drawing board.

I decided I had to test drive another Eco to compare to mine, If it had the same vibration and fuel economy, maybe that's just the way it is. I chose to test a brand new 2019 classic at another local dealer first. No vibration and 32mpg by the gauge on the dash on a ~40 mile test drive. I also noticed how readily it shifted into, and stayed in 8th gear, even as low as 50mph. This is how an Eco should run!

Next was a 2015 on a used lot. the only difference between it and mine was that it had well worn mud terrain tires. Aside from the tire noise it easily held 8th gear similar to the 2019, and averaged 25mpg in my 1/2 hour test drive.

I mention the ability to hold 8th gear because it was instantly noticeable to me that my truck is almost never in 8th gear. on flat ground if I accelerate up to and hold 55mph it will not shift into 8th gear. I have to speed up to 60, then let completely off the gas and coast down to 55, as it coasts down it will shift into 8th. Then I put my foot back on the pedal very lightly (less than 10% throttle as shown on CTS2) and it will stay in 8th gear, but won't maintain speed. when i push a little harder on the gas to maintain speed it immediately shifts down to 7th gear. If I get it to hold 8th gear, the slightest resistance will cause it to downshift.

With this new symptom I made another appointment at the dealer, and was able to reproduce this on a test drive with the tech at the dealer and he says this is 100% normal, that it will never shift into 8th gear unless there is absolutely no load on the engine (I'm calling BS).

The best way I can describe this is it operates as if it is always under a load; I am forever pulling a 4000lb phantom trailer. Or for those familiar with the 727 torqueflite, it's acting like the kickdown linkage isn't adjusted properly. I know this trans doesn't have a kickdown linkage, but it must have a digital equivalent of one. essentially monitoring throttle position, or something similar, to determine when to downshift.

I have also monitored engine load using the CTS2 and notice that even at idle in neutral it shows 25% engine load. In drive with my foot on the brake it will hover anywhere between 35 and 40%. driving down the road at 55mph in 7th gear with no load it's at least 60%. In all conditions this seems high to me, I'm wondering if someone on here can check with their own CTS2 to see what their load is?
 

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Are your brakes or parking brake sticking? Tires or tire pressure?
My suggestion is to get the AEM update, get on the EGR recall list. Then after those find a new dealer. With the AEM update comes the warranty and lemon law.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Already have the AEM. Not on any "recall list" for the EGR, I'm aware of the recall and got the official notice from FCA. Just waiting for notification that parts are available, then i'll make the appointment.

the first week of november I had the brakes done, everything was factory up to that point with ~85000 miles on them. New pads and rotors on all 4 corners, Nothing was seized, but got everything cleaned and lubed up. no appreciable improvement.

As of this week I am out of powertrain warranty, but I still have max care.

Despite that, both the dealer and FCA have now said according to them my truck is running 100% normally and there is nothing wrong. They are refusing to work with me on this issue anymore unless I can definitively prove there is something wrong with my truck.

I have some ideas about what could be wrong and asked the dealer to quote it in case I decide to foot the bill myself. But for now I'm continuing to drive it while being pissed off and hoping for it to self destruct or catch fire on the side of the road.

The alternative is to give up and trade it in on a cummins. I don't need the 2500, or the cummins, but I hate the seats and the looks of the new 1500 body style. At the very least with the cummins I get the same cab and seats that my Eco has. My other justification is that I can get 21mpg from the cummins which is all I get from my Eco now.
 

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Already have the AEM. Not on any "recall list" for the EGR, I'm aware of the recall and got the official notice from FCA. Just waiting for notification that parts are available, then i'll make the appointment.

the first week of november I had the brakes done, everything was factory up to that point with ~85000 miles on them. New pads and rotors on all 4 corners, Nothing was seized, but got everything cleaned and lubed up. no appreciable improvement.

As of this week I am out of powertrain warranty, but I still have max care.

Despite that, both the dealer and FCA have now said according to them my truck is running 100% normally and there is nothing wrong. They are refusing to work with me on this issue anymore unless I can definitively prove there is something wrong with my truck.

I have some ideas about what could be wrong and asked the dealer to quote it in case I decide to foot the bill myself. But for now I'm continuing to drive it while being pissed off and hoping for it to self destruct or catch fire on the side of the road.

The alternative is to give up and trade it in on a cummins. I don't need the 2500, or the cummins, but I hate the seats and the looks of the new 1500 body style. At the very least with the cummins I get the same cab and seats that my Eco has. My other justification is that I can get 21mpg from the cummins which is all I get from my Eco now.
Hi: ajb3015... Fire is final... but I do love a mystery!!!
Dieseldragon North shore of Lake Erie.
 

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Get going and with a clear road ahead, put it into neutral. Don't be afraid of turning that knob too far and hitting reverse. I did do that around 45 mph and only a das warning resulted.

Now coast a bit. They coast real well in neutral as I used to do that a lot just for the heck of it. Old habits from driving a manual transmission most of my life die hard. If it coasts along well then there is no drag from any component.

Check it out and have fun doing it.
 

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Hi: ajb3015... Fire is final... but I do love a mystery!!!
Dieseldragon North shore of Lake Erie.
I honestly love the truck and don't want to get rid of it, or have it succumb to a fiery fate, but sometimes it's extremely frustrating when you feel you're forced to drive it in a state that you're not happy with.

But since the dealer and FCA have essentially washed their hands of it, I'm left doing the diagnosis myself. And I would love to dedicate myself to finding the solution for no other reason than to prove to FCA that, firstly I was right, and secondly that I could do what they couldn't and solve the problem. But since I don't have the necessary equipment to diagnose it, the only option I have is to throw very expensive parts at it and hope it fixes the problem. My pocketbook is not deep enough for that.

Get going and with a clear road ahead, put it into neutral. Don't be afraid of turning that knob too far and hitting reverse. I did do that around 45 mph and only a das warning resulted.

Now coast a bit. They coast real well in neutral as I used to do that a lot just for the heck of it. Old habits from driving a manual transmission most of my life die hard. If it coasts along well then there is no drag from any component.

Check it out and have fun doing it.
Been there done that. from D to N and back, and to R once by mistake, then had to change my pants. I realized what I did before I saw the dash message and quickly rolled back to drive with no adverse affects, but the initial shock really gets you.

My results from that test are inconclusive. It didn't immediately drag to a stop, so there's no blatantly obvious drag by any components. But I don't have a baseline to compare to as far as coasting ability; does mine coast as well as others do? Regardless, I don't believe there is any physical component causing drag.
 
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