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Precisely!

The exact wording from FCA is: " This AEM is not expected to change any of your key vehicle attributes, such as reliability, durability, vehicle performance, drivability, engine noise or vibration, or other driving characteristics."

So they LIED to us. The lag is most definitely a change of characteristic, and performance.

I have already spoken via phone with one of the lawsuit attorneys about this. He said that discussions were already in progress with FCA about this.

Today, I also spoke with someone involved with these legal proceedings. I was told FCA and EPA acknowledge there is an acceleration issue and apparently are in on-going discussions about the problem. The legal teams are not being clued in at this time to those discussions. Apparently there is some sort of case review in early September and the legal team hopes to learn more about this issue at that time. When I asked if it might be good to record pre-AEM performance data, the person I spoke with thought that would be a good idea. They also suggested I wait as long as possible to complete the AEM. As my extended warranty goes until May of next year, I was planning to wait until early 2Q20 to have it completed.When I asked if accepting the cash from FCA would give up rights to actions should the vehicle performance have been measurably compromised, country to FCA claims, I was told it would not.

Meanwhile Clifford our big red truck has recently completed another round trip towing adventure between SC and CA and is about 7500 miles from hitting 200,000.
 

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Interesting stuff: I'm one of those that generally follows the rules, does what I'm supposed to do and don't complain much unless it's really bad. Well, I got the AEM update right away, I have filed my $3k rebate/lawsuit release thingy, and am waiting for the cash. Am I happy I have to "release FCA from ALL THINGS, FOREVER? No! Am I happy my mileage has dropped now about 3 to 4 MPG since the AEM update? NO!! Am I happy about the lag I am now seeing and sluggish pickup? NO. But I'm living with it, so far. I've read the postings of the crazy guys complaining they are going to get killed pulling into traffic because of the UN-expected lag. Up till now, I have blown most of that off and agree with the opposing posts, just be careful pulling out. All good, UNTIL YESTERDAY!!! Yesterday I am on a side street with my 83 year old mother in the truck, and I need to pull out onto a busy main street. Main street is a normal every town American town, with stores lining both sides, and a single lane going each direction at about 20 or 30 mph, with parked cars on both sides of the road. I wait for a large enough break in the traffic, and as normal step on the pedal to pull out and the truck slowly starts rolling out, about 1/2 way across the two lanes (parking lane and opposite traffic lane) the truck is hesitating and basically crawling... Getting nervous watching the cars in both directions closing in on me, I step harder on the pedal and the truck doesn't accelerate! "YIKES" my mother yells, and cars in both directions have to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting us still inching across the road into the proper lane. The truck finally starts picking up speed and off I go, but both cars coming out me blew there horn and had to swerve to avoid hitting me.

I had PLENTY of space to get out, it was not a "dangerous" step on the gas and get in traffic type thing. I had plenty of space had the car/truck worked normally. It was a bit scary I must admit! The VERY first thing that popped in my mind was these threads on here where people are complaining it's dangerous after the AEM update. And this is the first time I will now report, I agree with them!!!

I sure hope FCA is doing something about this!!!!
 

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So the advice I am hearing is be sure the engine is warmed up to 150 before an aggressive start, or risk the possibility of a main bering failure?

The secondary discussion is the added turbo lag the AEM flash seems to have induced and whether FCA is liable for an accident experienced by a driver who gets into an accident because he wasn't able to accelerate as fast as he expected?
 

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...So the advice I am hearing is be sure the engine is warmed up to 150 before an aggressive start, or risk the possibility of a main bering failure?
In the 70's , an old guy operating a big bulldozer told me he never made it do hard work
until it was warmed-up , he would start it in the morning , do his visual check-up of all components
then have it move around to where the leveling was going to take place , but thebig pushing around of
material only started when diesel was getting warm , I have applied this to my diesel engine , never " Gun-it " when cold .
..
and I will add this here again , modern locomotives are like that too ,
messages on display panel ==> LOAD limited = cold engine , means the thing barely moves itself until warmed up
to protect engines .. ( LOAD means the Output of power ).
..
FCA should have added such a display on EVIC with the AEM , until that new message disappears ; you
would know you have limited power available to you .
 

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............ and whether FCA is liable for an accident experienced by a driver who gets into an accident because he wasn't able to accelerate as fast as he expected?
..
FCA can't be liable because driver had wrong expectations , due to lack of knowledge ,
It's not a Corvette ZR1 , you would not pull into fast moving traffic with a big rig , we have to consider
our pick-up to be as slow as a big rig before choosing a spot to merge into .
 

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Discussion Starter #126
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FCA can't be liable because driver had wrong expectations , due to lack of knowledge ,
I have to agree. The "almost getting in an accident" irks me. Those who think anyone but themselves will be liable is comical at best. When you tell the insurance company that you pulled out into traffic and got hit, Who do you think will be at fault. I realize some streets are busier than others but tri-axles, semis, school buses, trash trucks, tour buses, and a whole slew of HD diesel trucks seem to do it everyday.
 

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I have to agree. The "almost getting in an accident" irks me. Those who think anyone but themselves will be liable is comical at best. When you tell the insurance company that you pulled out into traffic and got hit, Who do you think will be at fault. I realize some streets are busier than others but tri-axles, semis, school buses, trash trucks, tour buses, and a whole slew of HD diesel trucks seem to do it everyday.
Yup .... nailed it !!
 

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Kazimodo..... When I first joined this forum,I tried to explain about cold engine tolerance’s and how you should never accelerate hard in cold weather, Well members here explained how synthetic oil is the best , no need to let your engines warm up ?

Along with the internal’s tolerance changing due to cold conditions the biggest one particular issue with a diesel is actually the HEAD GASKETS FAILING , A cold combustion chamber that’s not burning completely leaves unburnt fuel then folks hammer on the accelerator which creates extremely high head pressures, Now put a high HP tune then a cold fast acceleration , this is the recipe for blowing head gaskets .. Operating temperatures before heavy loading will save head gaskets ...Let your engine get warm and happy :eek:
 

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You have to know your truck and what it will and won't do... but I think there ARE extreme cases occasionally caused by this update where you step on the gas and there is NO RESPONSE for an unreasonable amount of time. Big rig drivers would not tolerate a truck that did NOTHING when you asked it to accelerate.

Slow diesels are one thing that we can get used to... Pulling out and giving yourself room to be slow, and then just sitting there dead stopped is another issue IMHO. That's what I read in some of the more extreme cases and that is what my truck did going uphill. Dead stopped for at least 15 seconds with steady pressure on the accelerator. I felt so unsafe and it felt so unpredictable, I just stopped driving it within a week of the update.
 

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Let’s face it. I was one of the ones that said my truck drives the same after the ECM. Bullshit! It took some time but the lag and the mileage hit after a while. My 2015 Has only 24,000 miles on it.

This shit happens even after warm up. By the way, how long does it take to get this truck to 150 degrees oil temp. Have auto starts and let it sit for 20 min. 120 was
Max after 20 mins.

Turn it off and shop. Come out 15 minutes later and the truck stalls.

FCA knocked the Freaking ECO out of this Diesel! Eyeing F250/350. Maybe a real truck. I’m just pissed the “F” off.

GDE, but why did I have to! One of the first to get the F’ing check.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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FCA should have added such a display on EVIC with the AEM , until that new message disappears ; you
would know you have limited power available to you .
Interesting and logical. Made me recall that BMW did a similar thing years ago with the M5 and M3 models (maybe still do?). They have a moving redline based on temperature that basically relays "don't rev past this point"

PQ1G1402.jpg
 

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So, I’m supposed to let my truck idle and warm up to a certain temperature or I’m damaging the main bearings?
That was not what I paid $44,000 for and would expect FCA to pay for the wasted fuel over th short life of this truck
 

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I understand the pain a lot of you are feeling in Northern states and it will only get worse once the winter comes. I would be really pissed off too. I live in South Florida so not as much needed to warm up engine. I usually let it warm up a bit and barely step on the pedal till it warms up. I live in a gated community and it is a long slow ride to front gate so the engine is warmed up enough by the time I get to the busy main roads. I also have GDE installed.

This post makes me feel a little better about the engine. If I continue to "baby it" until it is warm and with GDE I feel that main bearing failure is NOT in my future. I would like to own this truck for a long long time.
 

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Northern states & canucks are going to want to take advantage of the block coolant heater & weather front to dramatically lower the time to operating temp.
 

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Northern states & canucks are going to want to take advantage of the block coolant heater & weather front to dramatically lower the time to operating temp.
oh yes we do , old diesel pros would even plug it in in the spring and fall ,
any little bit of heat from the block heater , given to the coolant , is less minutes to warm it up .
diesels are not like gasser for warming up on idle , next winter look at your dash display ,
when engine is warm , I have seen my temperature go from 98C ( full operating temp ) to 77C
just sitting for 4 minutes at a railroad crossing at idle , Idle does not create much heat in a diesel .
 

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I have to agree. The "almost getting in an accident" irks me. Those who think anyone but themselves will be liable is comical at best. When you tell the insurance company that you pulled out into traffic and got hit, Who do you think will be at fault. I realize some streets are busier than others but tri-axles, semis, school buses, trash trucks, tour buses, and a whole slew of HD diesel trucks seem to do it everyday.
I would “normally” agree with you here 100%. I am NOT a risky driver or fast driver, I’m actually a slow grandpa type driver and think most people are way to crazy on the road. HOWEVER, this is NOT a normal situation by any stretch. I just signed a release acknowledging that FCA had a problem with their product (the Ecodiesel motor), and that they fixed the problem with NO PERFORMANCE degradation that would be noticeable to me the driver. In signing that release, I released them of responsibility by accepting a small payment for my troubles. Well, now I’m finding they lied to me, and I signed an agreement with false statements, and you can’t tell me they didn’t know that!!! So now with this added information, and the possibility of a dangerous situation (aka my situation a few days ago), you will still say a court would not side with me??? I think your dead wrong, sorry. By itself, your statement is correct, with the rest of the background story, it is incorrect.

As far as the getting it up to temperature thing goes, that is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Not that we shouldn’t wait to warm it up, but the fact it goes away ounce warm. Mine does NOT go away, period. When I had my incident a few days ago getting onto Main Street, my truck was running all day long. I probably ran it 150 miles prior to that incident. It was also in the upper 80’s out, so it had nothing to do with living in NY!

FCA has a problem, and they had better fix it, plain and simple!! If the other company (GDE?) can make the truck run better With a software update, there is NO REASON FCA can’t do the same!
 

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In the 70's , an old guy operating a big bulldozer told me he never made it do hard work
until it was warmed-up , he would start it in the morning , do his visual check-up of all components
then have it move around to where the leveling was going to take place , but thebig pushing around of
material only started when diesel was getting warm , I have applied this to my diesel engine , never " Gun-it " when cold .
..
and I will add this here again , modern locomotives are like that too ,
messages on display panel ==> LOAD limited = cold engine , means the thing barely moves itself until warmed up
to protect engines .. ( LOAD means the Output of power ).
..
FCA should have added such a display on EVIC with the AEM , until that new message disappears ; you
would know you have limited power available to you .
So you think because a 2 million pound locomotive TRAIN’s manual says to warm it up before taking off, we should do the same in our pickup truck??

You know what, my brother is an airline pilot for Delta Airlines, I’m going to post up a copy of his start-up procedures for the Boeing 777, I think it takes 42 minutes, 2 pilots and an APU (Auxillary Power Unit, aka a small jet engine that works as a generator to create enough power to start the main jet engines). I’m thinking we should all wait 42 minutes before leaving the driveway in the morning, and of course fire up the APU first, right?
 

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Is your truck powered by a jet engine or a diesel?

When I mentioned the coolant (block) heater & weather front I didn’t mention my truck was in that “polar vortex” in Wisconsin. Minus 34 & minus 32 those two mornings. Fired right up and coolant temp was at 70. It did also have the benefit of the weather front and GDE hi idle but from 70 it got to 150 plus pretty quickly before I rolled out. And no I don’t load it or spin it up until full operating temp.
 

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I would “normally” agree with you here 100%. I am NOT a risky driver or fast driver, I’m actually a slow grandpa type driver and think most people are way to crazy on the road. HOWEVER, this is NOT a normal situation by any stretch. I just signed a release acknowledging that FCA had a problem with their product (the Ecodiesel motor), and that they fixed the problem with NO PERFORMANCE degradation that would be noticeable to me the driver. In signing that release, I released them of responsibility by accepting a small payment for my troubles. Well, now I’m finding they lied to me, and I signed an agreement with false statements, and you can’t tell me they didn’t know that!!! So now with this added information, and the possibility of a dangerous situation (aka my situation a few days ago), you will still say a court would not side with me??? I think your dead wrong, sorry. By itself, your statement is correct, with the rest of the background story, it is incorrect.

As far as the getting it up to temperature thing goes, that is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. Not that we shouldn’t wait to warm it up, but the fact it goes away ounce warm. Mine does NOT go away, period. When I had my incident a few days ago getting onto Main Street, my truck was running all day long. I probably ran it 150 miles prior to that incident. It was also in the upper 80’s out, so it had nothing to do with living in NY!

FCA has a problem, and they had better fix it, plain and simple!! If the other company (GDE?) can make the truck run better With a software update, there is NO REASON FCA can’t do the same!
GDE couldn't make the truck run better if they had to make their tune EPA compliant.
 

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I've said this before and i say it again - without hesitation.

If you are driving in a manner that requires full power application or near full power application to merge into traffic to avoid getting hit, you are a flat out moron. It is irresponsible to do that and you should not have a license.

in addition. FCA is not saying you have to warm up your vehicle to drive it. They are saying you need to have it at a reasonable temp to get full power. THat is VERY reasonable and common sense. Again, dumb if you operate your vehicle at full power while its cold. There are so many other parts that can fail in this scenario not just the bearings.
 
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