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2021 Limited 4x4 3.0 ED, 3.21 LSD, Level 1, Technology, trailer tow, bed utility groups
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2021 1500 ED Limited 4x4, 12,xxx miles, bought Sept 2021. I've done searches for my predicament, but only seem to come up with customer error situations.

On Aug 6th, I pull into my regular station to refuel, filled from the #2 Diesel pump, thought I smelled gasoline and figured someone must have spilled on the ground, added 17 gallons to fill my 26 gallon tank. Got the old "See Clerk For Receipt" so I did just that, then hopped in & drove home about 4 miles.

The next day, I hopped in, pushed button to start and found it peculiar that it cranked a bit longer than usual but it did start and ran okay, drove maybe 12 miles to my destination. A couple hours later, it cranked around 8 seconds to start, again running okay, no warning lights on, drove back home again. Aug 8th, it cranked long again, so I went back to the station, asked if they had any problems with the Diesel, to which they suggested I talk to the manager the next morning, overheard that at least one more customer had an issue, then noticed while heading home that all of the pumps are bagged. Aug 9th, the manager says call Corporate, gave me their store number but says he can't explain anything further at this time. The same day, Corporate says that I'd need to get the fuel analyzed at my expense but they would have their Risk Management dept call me. I hang tight and leave the truck sit, then get a call Aug 12th from Corporate, saying again that I would need to get a fuel analysis, that they would not discuss further, however that they do know of an issue they are investigating at that station. They won't confirm if I should or should not drive it, won't say much of anything, but I did get their auth to pay for the towing. They also said a rental would be at my discretion. I called around, almost $900/week for a rental pickup truck. Yikes! Too much to bite off with uncertain reimbursement.

Also on Aug 12th, I called my selling dealer to discuss, made arrangements for it to get towed to them, it arrived there on Aug 15th. Aug 16th, Dealer gave me an estimate of $16k {Holy Crap!!!!!) to have the fuel tank drained and flushed, the fuel pump, HPFP, fuel rail, fuel lines, injectors and filter all replaced. Early Friday Aug 19 analysis results a few days later confirming the contamination. Called the Risk Management dept, they still would not grant paying for a rental, then assigned me to a rep with their 3rd Party Insurance, whom took from Friday morning to Tuesday to reply, then stated that they would reimburse me directly for repair and rental expenses. Long-ish story shortened, they will be paying for both directly. Finally on Aug 23rd, I'm in a rental '21 F150 semi-stripped XLT 2wd 3.5EB w/36k rough miles (meh)

I requested the dealer get an oil analysis done as well, but that will likely be waiting 6-8 weeks give or take for the parts to arrive before they bring it into the shop again (a few are backordered).
The dealer won't itemize the estimate, not even splitting it between parts and labor, and I have requested that a few times, as well as if my factory warranty will be intact following repairs... <crickets>

Anyway... it was driven maybe 35-40 miles with UP TO (questionable on actual amount) 66% gasoline in the fuel. The engine might have been slightly more diesel-clattery than usual, hard-starting, but otherwise ran fine, no CEL or anything abnormal. What else should I be concerned about? Would the SCR, DPF or CAT be affected? Once repaired, what would be reasonable to ask for compensation from the fuel company? More than just time and expenses involved? Anyone been through a similar situation?
 

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2021 Ram 2500 Tradesman Crew Cab 6.7 L Turbo Cummins 3.73
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The HPFP is the main concern here. The lack of lubricity from the gasoline causes the internal parts of the HPFP to start to fail.

Man that sucks. Good luck on your repairs.
 

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2017 Ram 1500 ED Laramie 4x4 3.92 Charlotte, NC
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Did you ever pull your own fuel sample? If you were actually running 60+% gasoline through the hpfp, I wouldn't think you'd get too far. Maybe the end of the pumps. It's good that the station is stepping up to take care of the situation but I also agree with Ecosparky. Call your insurance company to get more muscle behind you. I have no idea what extras you should be asking for. I guess it all depends on what you had to give up while waiting for them to finish playing pinball with you.
 

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Just because someone put gas in the diesel tank of the gas station does not mean that the station's diesel tank was 100% gasoline. Their diesel holding tank was probably not bone dry empty when someone put gas in it.

So, even if 60% of your fuel tank was fuel from that station, that doesn't mean you had 60% gas in your tank. I think you'd need a fuel analysis to determine how much actual gasoline was in your tank.

Meanwhile, I would keep a detailed written log of everything that has happened and does happen. Date/time on every entry. Names of the people you talked to. Phone numbers. Odometer readings. Every expense. Length of time on the phone or whatever.

And then, be prepared to engage an attorney. I would go ahead and start looking for one and see if I could get a free consultation. Afterwards, when talking to an insurance company rep, if they are not forthcoming with what you want, mentioning "I spoke with Mr. Dewey, at Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe, and I would really like you to make this happen for me, so I don't have to turn this matter over to him to handle on my behalf" could be very helpful. IME, insurance companies REALLY do not like to have the other side bring lawyers into the mix. Caveat: My opinion- do NOT say or imply that you spoke with an attorney unless you have actually done so. Doing that is, in my opinion, playing with fire and you're setting yourself up to get burned. They know what people who really spoke to an attorney sound like versus ones that are just throwing that out there to sound tough.
 

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2019 Ram 2500 Cummins - EX Ecodiesel owner.
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What a saga.

At least the station and their representatives are dealing with you and the problem. Be thankful for that.

My take is the damage may be nothing but there could be an issue with your injector pump. The Ecodiesel uses a version of the CP4 pump which is historically fragile dealing with fuel lubrication issues. That is all I would be concerned with since the engine ran well without major stoppage.
 

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2021 Limited 4x4 3.0 ED, 3.21 LSD, Level 1, Technology, trailer tow, bed utility groups
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The truck is at the dealer 50+ miles away, no longer in my custody, so it'd be hard to get a sample of my own tested. Attached is the sample report. Sadly, it does not state percentage, but it does show "Cetane: NONE - OCTANE"

My insurance agent said I could file through them but it would take longer, adding another link to relay things back & forth. She said a legal consult might be a good for advice but might not be the way to pursue it. If I got a lawyer, or even mention to them that I may, the Risk Management company likely will no longer deal with me directly at all as everything would go through the lawyer, again delaying anything getting done.

Risk Management initially expected ME to pay for everything and get reimbursed. I said while I may be able to move money or credit between accounts to afford it, someone less fortunate would not be able to, and neither should I. I also told them that it would make me a reseller and a fair markup would be justified. Several emails later and they say they will be reaching out to the dealer, likely paying them directly. The rental was arranged through them as well.

Speaking of the rental... it's a 2021 F-150 2wd XLT crew cab 3.5 EcoBoost... ride is very rubbery but definitely rougher than my Ram, it shifts rather harsh and feels like misfiring, almost chugs along, sluggish. Hoping the cam phasers don't die on me. Getting used to a switchblade key again, missing a lot of my features, especially navigation.

Except for the initial inquiry at the station and call to Corporate, EVERYTHING has been through email, and very slowly for them to reply, last I heard from them was Tuesday when they set up the rental (got it the next day) but at least I have a paper trail. I also have been keeping a log from the start. As for time involved, that I haven't kept track of but should have.
 

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2015 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel Bighorn 4x4
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Unfortunately I highly doubt whether you are entitled to anything other than what you are getting. Sounds like the truck will be fixed (hopefully thoroughly) on the stations insurance companies dime AND they are paying for a truck for you to use. Unless you are trying to sue them for some sort of personal damages? lost time? I have never gotten anything like that for any kind of accident. Usually with insurance you never quite get made whole when you are done.
+1 on filing a claim with your own insurance as they will have greater clout and knowledge than you alone. Hopefully your dealer is qualified and thorough!
Great write up and good luck!
 

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This is why I always get a receipt and note the ODO miles on it and am lucky enough to get 95% of my fuel from the same, local, large volume station.
 

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The truck is at the dealer 50+ miles away, no longer in my custody, so it'd be hard to get a sample of my own tested. Attached is the sample report. Sadly, it does not state percentage, but it does show "Cetane: NONE - OCTANE"

My insurance agent said I could file through them but it would take longer, adding another link to relay things back & forth. She said a legal consult might be a good for advice but might not be the way to pursue it. If I got a lawyer, or even mention to them that I may, the Risk Management company likely will no longer deal with me directly at all as everything would go through the lawyer, again delaying anything getting done.

Risk Management initially expected ME to pay for everything and get reimbursed. I said while I may be able to move money or credit between accounts to afford it, someone less fortunate would not be able to, and neither should I. I also told them that it would make me a reseller and a fair markup would be justified. Several emails later and they say they will be reaching out to the dealer, likely paying them directly. The rental was arranged through them as well.

Speaking of the rental... it's a 2021 F-150 2wd XLT crew cab 3.5 EcoBoost... ride is very rubbery but definitely rougher than my Ram, it shifts rather harsh and feels like misfiring, almost chugs along, sluggish. Hoping the cam phasers don't die on me. Getting used to a switchblade key again, missing a lot of my features, especially navigation.

Except for the initial inquiry at the station and call to Corporate, EVERYTHING has been through email, and very slowly for them to reply, last I heard from them was Tuesday when they set up the rental (got it the next day) but at least I have a paper trail. I also have been keeping a log from the start. As for time involved, that I haven't kept track of but should have.
Thanks for giving us an update on your ordeal! You seem to be covering your ass the best you can. Hang in there, hope you get a positive outcome馃憤
 

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2021 Limited 4x4 3.0 ED, 3.21 LSD, Level 1, Technology, trailer tow, bed utility groups
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you. One could get all upset and start throwing around demands, but that typically gets you nowhere. Sure, it sucks and all, but no sense letting it consume me. Yes, I do miss my fancy truck with all the doo-dads, and it's funny I get in looking for a start button and have to get out, dig in my pocket and use an actual key again, but I have something to drive for the time being. I'm still waiting for days to receive replies by email as that's my only source of communication with them at this time, but it does leave me a paper trail.

On a side note... I'm glad I didn't by an F-150. This 2021 has 36k miles, 3.5 EcoBoost, and I think the cam phasers are about to crap out. She runs kind of rough, rides rubbery, and shifts rather harsh. It has much better paint though... has signs of being tossed in a gravel ditch or two but nary a rock chip. My Ram has barely seen gravel in 12k miles and yet has many pock marks in the front and at the wheel flare edges (and has had mud flaps from week one).
 

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Thank you. One could get all upset and start throwing around demands, but that typically gets you nowhere. Sure, it sucks and all, but no sense letting it consume me. Yes, I do miss my fancy truck with all the doo-dads, and it's funny I get in looking for a start button and have to get out, dig in my pocket and use an actual key again, but I have something to drive for the time being. I'm still waiting for days to receive replies by email as that's my only source of communication with them at this time, but it does leave me a paper trail.

On a side note... I'm glad I didn't by an F-150. This 2021 has 36k miles, 3.5 EcoBoost, and I think the cam phasers are about to crap out. She runs kind of rough, rides rubbery, and shifts rather harsh. It has much better paint though... has signs of being tossed in a gravel ditch or two but nary a rock chip. My Ram has barely seen gravel in 12k miles and yet has many pock marks in the front and at the wheel flare edges (and has had mud flaps from week one).
You are taking the best approach, calm and focused gets the job done, people are human and make mistakes it's how we handle things when situations go awry. Best case scenario is always when those in charge take responsibility and ultimately restore your truck back to pre-incident condition. Hopefully years later this turns into one of those stories you laugh at over a beer with friends. Good Luck.
 

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2017 Ram 1500 ED Laramie 4x4 3.92 Charlotte, NC
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Thank you. One could get all upset and start throwing around demands, but that typically gets you nowhere. Sure, it sucks and all, but no sense letting it consume me. Yes, I do miss my fancy truck with all the doo-dads, and it's funny I get in looking for a start button and have to get out, dig in my pocket and use an actual key again, but I have something to drive for the time being. I'm still waiting for days to receive replies by email as that's my only source of communication with them at this time, but it does leave me a paper trail.

On a side note... I'm glad I didn't by an F-150. This 2021 has 36k miles, 3.5 EcoBoost, and I think the cam phasers are about to crap out. She runs kind of rough, rides rubbery, and shifts rather harsh. It has much better paint though... has signs of being tossed in a gravel ditch or two but nary a rock chip. My Ram has barely seen gravel in 12k miles and yet has many pock marks in the front and at the wheel flare edges (and has had mud flaps from week one).
I went through the same issues when we ended up taking the wife's VW on vacation. Always looking for the push button start, the shift knob, and the brake release. Add in the buttons on the steering wheel that are always in the wrong place and no Nav. Had I thought that one out, I would have grabbed the old garmin before we left home.

I had an F-150 for a rental before the world shut down. Told the guy when I dropped it off that it shifted so poorly I thought the tires were shot and slipping on wet pavement.
 

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2021 Limited 4x4 3.0 ED, 3.21 LSD, Level 1, Technology, trailer tow, bed utility groups
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Demands don't get anywhere. I inquired on a buyout but their reply was:

"I have contacted our Estimatic department who is reviewing the estimate and waiting for a call back. We have acknowledged there was an issue at the store with the fuel and will pay for your damages. I should know very soon and will be sending you check for the damages. It doesn鈥檛 appear that your truck will be a total loss, so we would be paying for the truck to be repaired."

The following are the most recent emails...
Mine:

"From previous email correspondence, it was my understanding that you would be paying the dealership directly. The vague resolution or whatever this is you are presenting seems deceptive or manipulative, like it's the final payout and
(company name withheld) is absolved. Until the repairs are fully completed and all costs are determined, I will not agree to an amount.

Will they be compensating later for any further damages discovered during the repair? What if the analysis shows gasoline in the oil, internal engine scoring, bearing damage, a burnt piston, exhaust component issues, or who knows what other failings I should not be expected to know that could have been affected? Those things won't be known until breakdown for repair or upon test drive when done. What happens then?

Will we be discussing my compensation for loss of use, the hardships I've endured, or the excessive time I have spent researching and dealing with this fiasco? You are being paid to handle this case. I should not be expected to do it for free.

While the rental is something to drive in the meantime, it is a base model lacking many of the features we are accustomed to and have paid for. I can assure you it is not a comparable driving experience and yet another compromise forced upon me. The rental agreement also limits me from towing and is not equipped with a hitch, which is another struggle. Will I be compensated for the downgrade, or for the days leading up to being provided with the rental as I was told it was "at my discretion" (potentially not compensated) to get one beforehand?

I have no doubt that I will have future difficulties with warranty coverage dealings relating to this contamination. Will you undisputedly cover those through the end of the manufacturer warranty period? How much time will I have to spend dealing with that and with what resistance on your company's part?

How about devaluation of my vehicle? This repair will show on a CarFax and affect trade value. Again, at no fault of mine, but will you be compensating for that?

Would you like to discuss these matters? How would you like to proceed?"


and theirs:

"I had not indicated that I was going to pay the shop directly but I most certainly can. I will send them the check. Sometimes the shop is not aware of further damages until they begin repairs, and they will then send us a supplement. We will pay any further damages if the shop becomes of other damages that are related. We will work with the shop on this.

I was not aware that the pick up truck that you had rented from Enterprise was not adequate. Are you using this truck for work purposes or personal use only? Have you discussed with Enterprise to see if another location may have the hitch that you need?

We will consider diminution of value on your pickup truck and I will have that reviewed by our Estimate department."


That's the latest in this saga. I'll be sure to keep this thread updated.
 

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Another example of how the diesel engine was killed by the EPA. This same thing happened to my father back in the 1990s on his F-350 7.3 diesel. It cost $380 to drop the tank, drain it, clean the system, and reinstall everything. He then drove it another several years with hard use hauling equipment and towing fork lifts. These days the fuel system is $12,000. Absolutely ridiculous.
 

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2021 1500 ED Limited 4x4, 12,xxx miles, bought Sept 2021. I've done searches for my predicament, but only seem to come up with customer error situations.

On Aug 6th, I pull into my regular station to refuel, filled from the #2 Diesel pump, thought I smelled gasoline and figured someone must have spilled on the ground, added 17 gallons to fill my 26 gallon tank. Got the old "See Clerk For Receipt" so I did just that, then hopped in & drove home about 4 miles.

The next day, I hopped in, pushed button to start and found it peculiar that it cranked a bit longer than usual but it did start and ran okay, drove maybe 12 miles to my destination. A couple hours later, it cranked around 8 seconds to start, again running okay, no warning lights on, drove back home again. Aug 8th, it cranked long again, so I went back to the station, asked if they had any problems with the Diesel, to which they suggested I talk to the manager the next morning, overheard that at least one more customer had an issue, then noticed while heading home that all of the pumps are bagged. Aug 9th, the manager says call Corporate, gave me their store number but says he can't explain anything further at this time. The same day, Corporate says that I'd need to get the fuel analyzed at my expense but they would have their Risk Management dept call me. I hang tight and leave the truck sit, then get a call Aug 12th from Corporate, saying again that I would need to get a fuel analysis, that they would not discuss further, however that they do know of an issue they are investigating at that station. They won't confirm if I should or should not drive it, won't say much of anything, but I did get their auth to pay for the towing. They also said a rental would be at my discretion. I called around, almost $900/week for a rental pickup truck. Yikes! Too much to bite off with uncertain reimbursement.

Also on Aug 12th, I called my selling dealer to discuss, made arrangements for it to get towed to them, it arrived there on Aug 15th. Aug 16th, Dealer gave me an estimate of $16k {Holy Crap!!!!!) to have the fuel tank drained and flushed, the fuel pump, HPFP, fuel rail, fuel lines, injectors and filter all replaced. Early Friday Aug 19 analysis results a few days later confirming the contamination. Called the Risk Management dept, they still would not grant paying for a rental, then assigned me to a rep with their 3rd Party Insurance, whom took from Friday morning to Tuesday to reply, then stated that they would reimburse me directly for repair and rental expenses. Long-ish story shortened, they will be paying for both directly. Finally on Aug 23rd, I'm in a rental '21 F150 semi-stripped XLT 2wd 3.5EB w/36k rough miles (meh)

I requested the dealer get an oil analysis done as well, but that will likely be waiting 6-8 weeks give or take for the parts to arrive before they bring it into the shop again (a few are backordered).
The dealer won't itemize the estimate, not even splitting it between parts and labor, and I have requested that a few times, as well as if my factory warranty will be intact following repairs... <crickets>

Anyway... it was driven maybe 35-40 miles with UP TO (questionable on actual amount) 66% gasoline in the fuel. The engine might have been slightly more diesel-clattery than usual, hard-starting, but otherwise ran fine, no CEL or anything abnormal. What else should I be concerned about? Would the SCR, DPF or CAT be affected? Once repaired, what would be reasonable to ask for compensation from the fuel company? More than just time and expenses involved? Anyone been through a similar situation?
16k for starters! Dealership set the standard........
 

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Hey there,

Have you started a case with Ram Cares yet? We'd like to see how we can help you with this. If you'd like, send us a direct message so we can see how we might assist!

Callie
Ram Cares
 
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