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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, being one of the first 100 on here, I am still on the fence about a purchase of a 1500. What I am comparing is a 1500 Outdoorsman 4X4 CC 6.4' bed vs 2500 Big Horn 4X4 SB. Uses would be for 1) Towing the family camper 2) Family outing vehicle (more than 4 is a squeeze in the libby), 3) Backup "get my sorry behind to work" vehicle (I will keep my other VM Diesel)

Pros for 1500
Cost - As equipped the way I want, nearly 10K cheaper.
Better Ride for the Family Sunday Vehicle
Lower to the ground for the vertically challenged in the family
Better Fuel Economy

Cons for the 1500
Still unproven engine and transmission combo(first year available)
Low Payload (Not afraid to go over a bit, but still stay under GAWR)
Currently own a VM motor and know some of the shortcomings, but of course, this is comparing apples to oranges.
Still not sure about the "running hot when towing" I hear about.

Pros for the 2500
More power than I need
More payload and towing than I need
Proven Technology with the Cummins and 68RFE

Cons for the 2500
Besides about 10k initial investment, higher registration fees (cost per GVW), higher sales tax, higher property excise tax
Rougher Ride
Higher Stance
Higher fuel consumption

Deal Breakers..What would make me say yes to either one if Ram made it...

1500 Slightly bigger engine (maybe 3.2l to 3.8l) and a higher payload package
2500 Cummins 5.0 would be the ultimate deal breaker.
 

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Ummm...neither the engine or transmission are unproven. ;) Both have been available in the Grand Cherokee for a few years and have performed well. It's just this combo that's new.

Yeah, so your apple (Libby VM engine) shares exactly zero with the 3 liter diesel on offer here, other than the company name. THIS one was commissioned by Cadillac, designed by Maserati and brought to the market by Chrysler (via Fiat). Now, the "hotter" version is used in the Maserati sedans in Europe, but we mere 'Mericans don't get that level of tune. :(

Pros and cons are handy, but your next step needs to be assigning times to those jobs the truck will do:

1 - commuting (either everyday or as a backup)
2 - towing
3 - family hauling

Then look at some real world costs - how much does it cost to run the 2500 in family hauling mode? etc...

You might find the 1500 is the right combo when camper hauling is only a limited activity. If, however, every single weekend the camper is being hitched and hauled, the 2500 might be the better choice. No one every complained about overkill...especially in braking performance. ;)
 

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I was thinking along the same lines.... I was looking long and hard at the 2500, but could not justify the larger up front costs, like you said about $10k more. I just don't tow enough or heavy enough to justify the jump to a 2500. The transmission gets excellent reviews and has been in use for a couple of years. The engine has also been in use (in Europe) for a couple of years and to a lesser extent here in the states (for about a year)and has also been getting good reviews.

Unless your camper is close to or over your max towing weights - and - you are doing it on a very regular basis. (Also factor in hills/mountains) it would seem the 1500 is the better fit all around. Lower inital costs, plus lower overall operating costs are going to be tought to beat. Not to mention some of the other costs - registering etc...

One pro of the 2500 is the potential for a higher resale value down the road, but you still have the larger initial cost.

I ordered a 1500 after going through a similar cost analysis and thought process...
 

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And lastly you don't need a bigger motor! This 3.0L rips!! Have you driven one? Try it it will surprise you!!!
 

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The CRD in the Libby was a fine engine. The biggest issue it suffered from was the Chrysler mechanics knew NOTHING about diesels. At least now the dealerships are merged and there are diesel mechanics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Right now, we are doing about a half dozen trips a year. Most are within 2 hours, although several hundred miles won't be out of the question. We aren't flat in Southern New England, but not mountainous. The worst possible trips are over the Berkshires and to Hershey. I am ok with going a bit slower if I upgrade to a camper closer to the trucks limits.

As far as commute, right now, my one way commute is about 75 miles and I do just under 2.5 round trips a week. The 1500 may even get better mileage than the CRD. But, I want to use the CRD for commuting.

As far as a family hauler, maybe every 3rd weekend, just because I work most weekends. Also, any mid week day trips, too.

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
And lastly you don't need a bigger motor! This 3.0L rips!! Have you driven one? Try it it will surprise you!!!
I test drove one. Because it is not mine and I knew that I was not going to buy it (not equipped to my liking), I babied it.

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And lastly you don't need a bigger motor! This 3.0L rips!! Have you driven one? Try it it will surprise you!!!
Yep it sure do. I drive 2 Duramax's with 400+bhp and the ED actually feels better. The difference comes with a heavy load. 9-14,000 lbs. then you need the bigger hp/torque.
 

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I had an 06 CRD GDE tunes and all.. same sport model & pacific ocean blue as in your profile pic,.The 1500 ED is far superior trans and engine wise.

This setup does great pulling our 22 foot camper, the liberty not so much (dog wags the tail)

I see 16 mpg towing @ 60 mph
My daily commute 28 mpg (3 stop signs, freeway on ramp and 2 more lights)

liberty crd evic lies to much these numbers are 3-4 mpg high - 26/27 daily and 18 [email protected]
 

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Unless you are towing in the Rockies, Sierra's or Cascades I wouldn't worry about the eastern towing with this diesel, this is the area of the country that will put the little 3.0 diesel to the test. Nothing in the east will put a strain on this diesel that it can't handle comfortably, even somewhat over payload and towing weight. So don't let this hold you back on your decision.
 

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Here's some of my random thoughts on all of this.


........

Pros for 1500
Cost - As equipped the way I want, nearly 10K cheaper.
Better Ride for the Family Sunday Vehicle
Lower to the ground for the vertically challenged in the family
Better Fuel Economy
Along with the $10K lower "Build" price... there are normally more deals/rebates on the 1500. So that even gets deeper.


Cons for the 1500
Still unproven engine and transmission combo(first year available)
Low Payload (Not afraid to go over a bit, but still stay under GAWR)
Currently own a VM motor and know some of the shortcomings, but of course, this is comparing apples to oranges.
Still not sure about the "running hot when towing" I hear about.
Well... both the engine and trans has been being used for a few years in other counties. That's why I decided to get it. BUT, the real unknown in the exhaust system.

Yes... some of the older VM (CRD) engines had issues. But this is a totally different engine. But, as you said, apples to orangs.

I'm not sure there is a real "Running hot" problem. My truck runs at 207 deg F just driving it. When you push it harder... the piston crowns are being cooled with oil jets, and that drives the temp of the oil quick. AND, since the oil cooler (and trans cooler) are heat exchangers, opposed to being a standard cooler... all that heat goes directly (and quickly) into the cooling water. This engine runs hot by design, and even the guys who have said there is a "Heat" problem... I don't' recall any of them saying that an over temp alarm had sounded. (so they were still in design range) Oh... have you looked at the coolant cap? it's WAY up at 21 psi. That tells me its designed to run crazy hot compared to what we are use to.


Pros for the 2500
More power than I need
More payload and towing than I need
Proven Technology with the Cummins and 68RFE

Cons for the 2500
Besides about 10k initial investment, higher registration fees (cost per GVW), higher sales tax, higher property excise tax
Rougher Ride
Higher Stance
Higher fuel consumption

Don't forget about paying for E class tires too, on your expenses.


I'm not sure where you were going with the "Deal breakers"... so I'm leaving them alone. (seems like a bunch of What-if's)



Anyway... I was right there with you on this. I made the choice in 2010 when I bought my TRX4 gas truck. (pic in my avatar, guess I need to change that) I had a 2500 Cummins, and I loved it. But, when I was looking for a new truck back then... I just couldn't justify the higher price. The same truck, as a 2500 Cummins, would wind up being almost $20k more !!!! That's basically because of all the rebates on the 1500 that weren't on the 2500.

Like you... I would rather over-load (or max load) my 1500 once in a while, than pay all the extra $$$ for the 2500. BUT... if I was towing a 7000 Lb trailer a lot (weekly) I would have still gone with the 2500.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sounds like the 1500 is working for many people. Sounds like I should pull the trigger. Just have to get a few more $$ together.

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