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I’m surprised no one has made a better radiator or as referenced by abj a CAC relocation kit. Build that kit and I would be in the market for it. I had forgotten about that bumper. I like it.
 

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Car enthusiasts have long had problems with understanding the difference between hp and torque. It's not about gears. It's about movement and time. Torque has no movement nor time. So as long as you're not talking about movement or time, you can talk about torque all you want. But as soon as there's movement or time, it's not torque. Examples:

You take a torque wrench set at 100lb-ft and put in on one of your wheels. That's 100lb-ft of honest torque. Sure neither wheel nor truck will move, but you're entirely accurate calling it 100lb ft of torque.

Now set the wrench at 200lb-ft and put it on a wheel. Lets say the wheel rotates a bit so your truck moves an inch. This is no longer torque because there is movement. What you have accomplished is "work". Divide the # by how long it took you to move that inch and you have power. The only way you can accurately talk torque, in that scenario, is to say that it took 200lb ft to get the truck moving.

Another example. You put 100lb-ft on the wheel for 30secs and I put 100lb-ft on the wheel for 10yrs. It's the same amount of torque, no matter that I worked a helova lot harder then you did. It's the same because there is no time in torque.

What we call torque is really hp at low rpm. Lets call it low end grunt. It's just that magazine writers, most of whom are not engineers, don't know any better. They don't understand the difference between lb-ft (torque) and ftlbs (work). They're so screwed up on this that we've all been brainwashed to call the units of torque "ftlbs". It's like saying "how many miles to Seattle" and someone telling you 300 Watts.

The reason that gearing changes torque is it's just like having a longer torque wrench on that wheel. But that doesn't change the fact that as soon as the wheel moves, it's not Torque anymore it's Work, which over <whatever> duration is Power.

Take all the twisted explanations of Torque vs. Power and throw them in the garbage. If there's motion or time, it's not torque.
 

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Car enthusiasts have long had problems with understanding the difference between hp and torque. It's not about gears. It's about movement and time. Torque has no movement or time. So as long as you're not talking about movement or time, you can talk about torque all you want. But as soon as there's movement or time, it's not torque. Examples:

You take a torque wrench set at 100lb-ft and put in on one of your wheels. That's 100lb-ft of honest torque. Sure neither wheel nor truck will move, but you're entirely accurate calling it 100lb ft of torque.

Now set the wrench at 200lb-ft and put it on a wheel. Lets say the wheel rotates a bit so your truck moves an inch. This is no longer torque because there is movement. What you have accomplished is "work". Divide the # by how long it took you to move that inch and you have power. The only way you can accurately talk torque, in that scenario, is to say that it took 200lb ft to get the truck moving.

Another example. You put 100lb-ft on the wheel for 30secs and I put 100lb-ft on the wheel for 10yrs. It's the same amount of torque, no matter that I worked a helova lot harder then you did. It's the same because there is no time in torque.

What we call torque is really hp at low rpm. Lets call it low end grunt. It's just that magazine writers, most of whom are not engineers, don't know any better. They don't understand the difference between lb-ft (torque) and ftlbs (work). They're so screwed up on this that we've all been brainwashed to call the units of torque "ftlbs". It's like saying "how many miles to Seattle" and someone telling you 300 Watts.

The reason that gearing changes torque is it's just like having a longer torque wrench on that wheel. But that doesn't change the fact that as soon as the wheel moves, it's not Torque anymore it's Work, which over <whatever> duration is Power.

Take all the twisted explanations of Torque vs. Power and throw them in the garbage. If there's motion or time, it's not torque.
If torque has nothing to do with it after It starts moving can you explain how/why lower hp engine with a lot of torque perform/seem to perform better than an engine with more hp but significantly less torque?
 

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If torque has nothing to do with it after It starts moving can you explain how/why lower hp engine with a lot of torque perform/seem to perform better than an engine with more hp but significantly less torque?
Sure. Look at the hp/rpm curve. The torquey engine will have lots of power at low rpm. Power is proportional to rpm. So in order to get lots of power out of a high rpm engine, you gotta get the engine up to high rpm. That's why diesel engines are nice to tow with. They have good power at low rpm. No one wants to tow for hours at 5000rpm. Sure, diesel engines don't have much power, but what power they have is very "usable", meaning the power is at rpms we're comfortable driving at. Sure, the Hemi has lots of power, but ya gotta wind up the RPM to get it. The Hemi isn't designed to give you a large fraction of it's peak hp, hour after hour, because it's not designed to spend much of it's life at the high rpm that would give you that power. The diesel is designed to spend much of it's life at a fair fraction of it's peak rpm. So us humans perceive the diesel's power as more "usable".
 

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I went looking for dyno charts, EcoD vs. Hemi. The EcoD shows ~150hp @ ~2200rpm. The Hemi shows [email protected]

150hp doesn't sound like a lot, but it's more than most folks think. Freeway cruising prob takes only 10-15hp. So here we have our little EcoD with 240hp showing quite well against the big Hemi and it's >400hp. In the RPM range people actually use, the EcoD does quite well because as a turbo diesel it has good low rpm power.

In order to put out more power than the EcoD, the Hemi has to go >4k rpm. How often does that happen? I've not floored the throttle of a daily driver in years. I don't normally need a lot of power.

The problem is that marketing depts and magazine writers don't want to talk about hp in the context of diesels because the #'s are low. So they talk instead about (instantaneous) torque #'s which sound bigger. And it works because folks don't know any better.
 

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RG By your own description you need both. There is no movement without first having the required torque to move it. Without adequate torque what would be 1000 hp doesn’t budge. No work (HP) is done without first having adequate torque. Aren’t these irrefutable physics facts?

However you may be able to help explain or deepen my understanding of this; Do you not also first need adequate torque when load (torque requirement?) is increased while moving? (Be it a headwind or a grade). Gearing aside for a second. Mfgrs do rate or dyno different amounts of torque at different rpms. (As well as different HP at different rpms) It seems as long as there is adequate torque what we call horsepower accelerates your truck. And more horsepower accelerates it quicker & faster to the end of it power or peak power range for that gear.
 

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Admittedly I don't have the strongest grasp on physics.... I started college in engineering and failed Engineering Physics 1 so I got to pick something new, in all fair ness our professor was teaching his first semester of physics and his last, he was fired due to a huge failure rate and many complaints.

I don't know if it can be proven or disproven with physics, I would assume it could, but is all HP created equal? If all hp is equal and 1hp =1 hp no matter what else then a 160 hp 12 valve cummins making 400-500 foot pounds of torque and the 160 horse 170 ish foot pounds of torque 2.5 liter 4 cylinder in my ford escape should be able to do the same amount of work/tow the same load the same speed on the same course? Im assuming this could only be possible with the infinite gearing situation.
 

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The GDE tune will not affect the cooling capability of the radiator so it will have no effect on towing capacity.

If you want to get really detailed, I do notice lower egts with the GDE tune compared to stock, so technically the engine is not producing (or more likely wasting) as much heat and therefore the radiator doesn't have to work as hard. But this will have little or no noticeable effect on towing capacity.

That's not to say the GDE tune isn't worth it, it just isn't going to give you that specific benefit. You could try the GDE thermostat though.


If you're really concerned about it for towing, pair the GDE Hot tune with the trans tune and the thermostat for the best results.

Your numbers look similar to mine, except the oil temp, mine is usually 212 with no load. It will climb to 220 easily though so your oil temp probably isn't anything to worry about.

I've heard several mentions of this GDE thermostat, but I've been unable to find one on their website. Can you post a link as to where one can be acquired?

Thanks in advance,

~Tim
 

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I don't have one and I only know of 1 or 2 people here on the forum that do. It is pretty new, you may have to email them and ask for one
 

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I've heard several mentions of this GDE thermostat, but I've been unable to find one on their website. Can you post a link as to where one can be acquired?

Thanks in advance,

~Tim
you have to list order amount on the order form/page and in comments tell them what you want. It was a little confusing to me.Customer service will guide you through. I also had to put old o-ring back in, new one was leaking and felt really loose in the hole or around the thermostat housing, could have not got it in right but don't think so, they did send a new one to me, the old one was green and new one was black and smaller. After taking thermostat out i really think with a little ingenuity i could fine one off the shelf and make it work but it's wife's truck and she don't like me experimenting with her's. Temps running 188* to 192*. Going on trip and will give oil and trans temp when we get back.
 

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you have to list order amount on the order form/page and in comments tell them what you want. It was a little confusing to me.Customer service will guide you through. I also had to put old o-ring back in, new one was leaking and felt really loose in the hole or around the thermostat housing, could have not got it in right but don't think so, they did send a new one to me, the old one was green and new one was black and smaller. After taking thermostat out i really think with a little ingenuity i could fine one off the shelf and make it work but it's wife's truck and she don't like me experimenting with her's. Temps running 188* to 192*. Going on trip and will give oil and trans temp when we get back.

I bought the thermostat from GDE but haven't gotten around to the install yet. Did you have to completely drain the radiator to do the install? While it does run a little warm in it's stock setup, I'm gun shy on replacing it for fear of creating an issue by botching the install. I almost think I would be better off to get the oil cooler from CFT and have them install the t-stat at the same time as the cooler. I wonder if there is a relocation kit to put it behind the bumper like the 2020's do?
 

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I bought the thermostat from GDE but haven't gotten around to the install yet. Did you have to completely drain the radiator to do the install? While it does run a little warm in it's stock setup, I'm gun shy on replacing it for fear of creating an issue by botching the install. I almost think I would be better off to get the oil cooler from CFT and have them install the t-stat at the same time as the cooler. I wonder if there is a relocation kit to put it behind the bumper like the 2020's do?
It's not bad install at all. I drained about a gallon out. Just took one fuel line retainer loose to make a little room to get to bolt on left side and used magnet to lift out bolts and put back in. Take your time and double check it all and be no problem. Last week in 95* running 77 mph on interstate the coolant 194*, trans 194* and oil 208*. Oil cooler would be nice and take some load off radiator which would help with all the temps.
 

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Thanks for the information. Looks like I will just need to take a deep breath and get to installing this then.
I will reply back once it's done, but it sounds like I'm getting worked up over nothing.
 
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