[TractorMan]

Hey guys, figured I would share my latest misadventure with you so at the very least maybe we can all get a kick out of it. Yesterday I was driving my 2016 Ram Ecodiesel down the Interstate. I just passed a semi in a light snowstorm, when suddenly I hear a ding and the check engine light comes on. hmm, couple seconds later get another ding and bright red symbol saying something like "service electronic fuel throttle". hmm, I quickly realise the engine is no longer running, my speed is dropping and the transmission can be felt shift gears down slowing me. All I see is a big "Freightliner" emblem getting really big in my rear view mirror. Perfect timing. So I quickly turn on my hazards and get onto shoulder avoiding the bird being thrown at me and air horn blaring. "sorry buddy, not intentional". So I quickly decide to see if it will restart and allow me to limp to the next exit about a mile down the road. Crank, crank, crank..... nothing. Hmm, I decide to grab my OBD Link and see what we got. All fuel system related codes. (See attached pic for codes). Hmm, you know i wonder, there is that CP4 recall I still have not heard anything about that is not good. Tow truck comes and takes me to the dealer, thankfully i was still local and not on one of my typical long distance trips. In route I called and warned the dealer, giving her the codes and my fears of the CP4 recall, she said they would watch for it and see what they find. Upon getting there, she says yep, there is a recall for that on your truck. So good news is if it is that you should be covered, bad news is parts were supposed to be ready first quarter this year, but current estimates are now 3rd quarter this year. Oh wonderful. They wont be able to look at the truck till thursday of next week so we shall see what we find. I will update you when I learn more. Ofcourse I work out of my truck often several hours or more away nearly every day. I need my truck to make a living. 3rd qtr is really not an option. And ofcourse since i bought the truck at another dealership becouse their salesman wasnt able to find me the truck i wanted for 2 years and i gave up waiting on him, they wont give me a loaner. only to the customers that got it from them. even though all my service on each of my vehicles is done there. nice policy. Dad recently totalled his spare truck so i cant use that. Fortunately father in law is letting me use his new tacoma. but I think i have already put more miles on it than he has. I cant keep doing that until 3rd qtr. Not to mention, I am a bigger guy, I look like I am climbing into a clown car getting in and out of that thing. lol. Now honestly i have not had all that much for issue given the amount of driving I do. so, i cannot complain about that. I will be patient for now and see what we find perhaps i will get luck and not take as long as feared. So what are your thoughts guys? you thinking the same thing, CP4? Little back ground truck has around 157,000 miles and the original engine was replaced around 53,000 due to a failed main seal dumping the oil out at once. Or so i learned after buying it. lucky me. I do most of my own preventive maintenance. I change fuel filters every other oil change so that would be roughly 14,000 miles. i do oil at 7,000 -10,000 miles. OEM Fuel Filters every time. I also religiously use a fuel additive for lubricity and other benefits since i owned it. last 2 tanks i let get down to 1/4 & 1/8 tank due to availabilty of local fuel stations at the time. upon restarting the truck the engine cranked and cranked for a long time before firing. making me swallow my stomach. but all other starts in between and since. it fired right up. never done that before. at first i feared bad fuel, but as i said ran fine and started fine every other time and this was 2 different stations 100+ miles appart. Coincidental or not truck is at 1/3 tank now sitting at the dealer lot. I forgot to mention tow truck driver said it did start for him when he was unloading it at the store. go figure. Sorry i am long winded, but wanted to get it all down. I will update you guys as i learn more.

 

[Black14]

Hey guys, figured I would share my latest misadventure with you so at the very least maybe we can all get a kick out of it. Yesterday I was driving my 2016 Ram Ecodiesel down the Interstate. I just passed a semi in a light snowstorm, when suddenly I hear a ding and the check engine light comes on. hmm, couple seconds later get another ding and bright red symbol saying something like "service electronic fuel throttle". hmm, I quickly realise the engine is no longer running, my speed is dropping and the transmission can be felt shift gears down slowing me. All I see is a big "Freightliner" emblem getting really big in my rear view mirror. Perfect timing. So I quickly turn on my hazards and get onto shoulder avoiding the bird being thrown at me and air horn blaring. "sorry buddy, not intentional". So I quickly decide to see if it will restart and allow me to limp to the next exit about a mile down the road. Crank, crank, crank..... nothing. Hmm, I decide to grab my OBD Link and see what we got. All fuel system related codes. (See attached pic for codes). Hmm, you know i wonder, there is that CP4 recall I still have not heard anything about that is not good. Tow truck comes and takes me to the dealer, thankfully i was still local and not on one of my typical long distance trips. In route I called and warned the dealer, giving her the codes and my fears of the CP4 recall, she said they would watch for it and see what they find. Upon getting there, she says yep, there is a recall for that on your truck. So good news is if it is that you should be covered, bad news is parts were supposed to be ready first quarter this year, but current estimates are now 3rd quarter this year. Oh wonderful. They wont be able to look at the truck till thursday of next week so we shall see what we find. I will update you when I learn more. Ofcourse I work out of my truck often several hours or more away nearly every day. I need my truck to make a living. 3rd qtr is really not an option. And ofcourse since i bought the truck at another dealership becouse their salesman wasnt able to find me the truck i wanted for 2 years and i gave up waiting on him, they wont give me a loaner. only to the customers that got it from them. even though all my service on each of my vehicles is done there. nice policy. Dad recently totalled his spare truck so i cant use that. Fortunately father in law is letting me use his new tacoma. but I think i have already put more miles on it than he has. I cant keep doing that until 3rd qtr. Not to mention, I am a bigger guy, I look like I am climbing into a clown car getting in and out of that thing. lol. Now honestly i have not had all that much for issue given the amount of driving I do. so, i cannot complain about that. I will be patient for now and see what we find perhaps i will get luck and not take as long as feared. So what are your thoughts guys? you thinking the same thing, CP4? Little back ground truck has around 157,000 miles and the original engine was replaced around 53,000 due to a failed main seal dumping the oil out at once. Or so i learned after buying it. lucky me. I do most of my own preventive maintenance. I change fuel filters every other oil change so that would be roughly 14,000 miles. i do oil at 7,000 -10,000 miles. OEM Fuel Filters every time. I also religiously use a fuel additive for lubricity and other benefits since i owned it. last 2 tanks i let get down to 1/4 & 1/8 tank due to availabilty of local fuel stations at the time. upon restarting the truck the engine cranked and cranked for a long time before firing. making me swallow my stomach. but all other starts in between and since. it fired right up. never done that before. at first i feared bad fuel, but as i said ran fine and started fine every other time and this was 2 different stations 100+ miles appart. Coincidental or not truck is at 1/3 tank now sitting at the dealer lot. I forgot to mention tow truck driver said it did start for him when he was unloading it at the store. go figure. Sorry i am long winded, but wanted to get it all down. I will update you guys as i learn more.
View attachment 93732

Hope it works out for the best for you!

 

[shaggn85]

Looking like a CP4 implosion. Sux.

 

[TractorMan]

So i was not overly familiar of the CP4 and was not sure if that is the name of the injection pump or fuel transfer pump in the tank so I did a little looking to better understand the situation. I am sure most of you already knew the answer but the CP4 is the injection pump. Of course it has already crossed my mind and was also mentioned by another member here on a different conversation (Brokedownbutgood if I recall) that it may have been the Tranfer pump instead that failed. At this point we shall wait and see.

 

[Captainmal]

Could be something other than the CP4?

You have major mileage on the truck and even the newer engine. Could be related to the injector timing issue the engines have with the reluctor wheel. After the dealer finally tears into it, come back with a simple report as to what it was.

 

[TractorMan]

Agreed as i said before could be something else. But I would not think reluctor wheel failure would have popped low fuel rail pressure codes , would it? Also truck did restart for tow truck driver at one point when he was moving it. I didn’t think that could happen with a reluctor wheel issue, once it was done it’s done. Perhaps I am wrong.

 

[sam]

My bet is on the lift pump.

My truck died and had some of the same codes.

It also restarted at the dealership after it was towed in.

Sam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TractorMan]

Yeah Sam I am starting to agree with you. That is sounding more likely all the time.

 

[Olypopper]

They don't normally fire after a CP4 failure. I'm betting lift pump as well. Don't ever feed off of what a service advisor tells you, often they know not what they speak!

 

[biodiesel]

It looks like you have over 200,000 miles on the factory lift pump. The lift pump is something I would have replaced as preventative maintenance at somewhere between 150,000 and 175,000 miles.

There are three philosophies, and each have their pros and cons.
1) Scheduled maintenance
2) Preventative maintenance
3) Run-to-failure

An example of scheduled maintenance would be oil and filter changes. This happens based on miles and/or time. Its purpose is to prevent wear and tear. Preventative maintenance, on the other hand, is when data is collected, and decisions are made about the service life of a particular part. In other words, you're forecasting when a repair should be made based on service life. Its purpose is to prevent costly downtime and being inconvenienced. Run-to-failure is when you run the part until it fails.

 

[Captainmal]

Years ago we had a poster on here with an Eodiesel from Canada. He was definitely a "run-to-failure" person. He ran his Ecodiesel something like 150,000 miles and then decided to change his fuel filter.

Haven't seen him post here in a few years. Maybe looking for a new fuel filter.

 

[GreatWhiteAB]

Well they should have a lift pump in inventory unlike the CP4...so you should be OK

 

[hinkle]

Mine did the same exact thing, CEL came on but mine immediately started chugging and dropped from 40 mph to maybe 15, then stalled within 100-150ft from the CEL coming on. I tried starting a few times, but would just crank. After maybe 3 or 4 minutes it finally restarted. I luckily had made it to my drive way, but was right in front of the garage door so I had to move so we could have access to our other vehicle.
I've called the dealer and FCA, multiple times because they don't call back, about it and pretty much have been told there is no fix yet and anything done would be out of pocket. I bought the truck at the dealer I called but they won't offer a loaner unless FCA approves. I haven't pressed the issue as the truck is still collecting snow in my driveway.
I hope your dealer had bad info about the Q3 lead time. It's a day over 2 weeks and has been a major pain, and my wife and I both work from home, most of the time.

 

[GreatWhiteAB]

OMG

 

[TractorMan]

It looks like you have over 200,000 miles on the factory lift pump. The lift pump is something I would have replaced as preventative maintenance at somewhere between 150,000 and 175,000 miles.

There are three philosophies, and each have their pros and cons.
1) Scheduled maintenance
2) Preventative maintenance
3) Run-to-failure

An example of scheduled maintenance would be oil and filter changes. This happens based on miles and/or time. Its purpose is to prevent wear and tear. Preventative maintenance, on the other hand, it when data is collected, and decisions are made about the service life of a particular part. In other words, you're forecasting when a repair should be made based on service life. Its purpose is to prevent costly downtime and being inconvenienced. Run-to-failure is when you run the part until it fails.

The truck has grand total of 157,000ish miles on the chassis. this engine has roughly just over 100,000 miles. not well over 200,000 on the original pump. Perhaps i didn't explain that well enough earlier. Thanks for the explanation in differences between Scheduled, preventative, and run to failure. Yes i probably used the wrong term earlier and/or didn't explain myself very well, i do both scheduled and preventative as should be. While I respect your opinion, I must disagree. I know many profesional mechanics indpendent & dealer, am related to several (auto, heavy equip, and Ag) techs, worked at multiple profesional shops, was a parts man, and equipment salesman, while i dont claim to be a mechanic myself i have never heard anyone claim a fuel lift pump is a preventative maintenance item. Sure it is not uncommon for them to fail. But there are some things that it is just not justifiable to replace before failure for various reasons. You can never eliminate the chance of failure 100%, some things are always just gonna be a roll of the dice. By your proposed philosophy the ecodiesel engine itself could be considered a preventative maintenance item. haha. I don't think it is widely known to the general public (outside of this forum perhaps) that fuel lift pumps fail around 200,000 so should be replaced between 150,000 to 175,000mi. By that criteria, 157,00 still falls in the suggested maintenance window so should not have failed yet. especially with a regular use of fuel additives (or snake oil, subject for another day) one would have thought you might have gotten a little extra life out of it. some things just fail early for no good reason. As they say if has t*** or tires it is gonna give you trouble eventually. There is also such a thing as a parts pusher, some will needlessly replace parts well before they should be. perhaps it is ignorence or just the pure enjoyment of working on stuff or personal experaince that they dont want to ever be in again they are willing to waste a little money to avoid it. thanks for the good discussion. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that is what discusions are for.

 

[TractorMan]

They don't normally fire after a CP4 failure. I'm betting lift pump as well. Don't ever feed off of what a service advisor tells you, often they know not what they speak!

In her defense she was not saying the CP4 was the definate answer, she simply was responding to my suggestion that if it is infact that, it may be awhile for parts via normal channels, but there are always things they can try to do for help. She said they still needed to diagnose it to determine the correct issue. She didn't know about the succesfull restart yet as the driver had not yet unloaded it. she was only going off what i told her. there was actually another truck in the shop for potentially the same issue.

Yes there are many terrible service writers, bad dealers, and terrible techs, but there are plenty of good ones too. one size fits all titles and descriptions are not fair and don't really work. By that philosophy they could say all diesel truck owners are jerks or are compensating for something. 😁, While she may not know what is happening here today, we have to give these people a little credit, all these people work with this stuff everyday, they see it on multiple units of the same vehicle, and will start to pickup on patern's just like you at your job. But we all have that one co worker or more we think is an idiot and can do without. that doesn't mean everyone there or at every other place is bad. As we all know, good help is hard to find these days. Try to respect the ones that deserve it, and the others that haven't yet given you reason not to respect them yet. Now the idiots that keep screwing it up repeatedly, well ok go ahead they deserve the ridicule.

 

[biodiesel]

I don't think it is widely known to the general public (outside of this forum perhaps) that fuel lift pumps fail around 200,000 so should be replaced between 150,000 to 175,000mi. By that criteria, 157,00 still falls in the suggested maintenance window so should not have failed yet. especially with a regular use of fuel additives (or snake oil, subject for another day) one would have thought you might have gotten a little extra life out of it.

A fuel additive isn't going to help the lift pump. The purpose of a fuel additive is to add lubricity to the fuel, which would improve the life of your CP4 pump. The lift pump just needs to stay cool by keeping the fuel level above the 1/4 mark.

The lift pump, similar to the water pump, is a wear item. The idea behind preventative maintenance is to replace these parts before they are known to fail. This isn't easy to do without taking lots of data. I made my 150,000 - 175,000-mile preventive maintenance recommendation based off a reliability-shaped curve. At 150,000 miles, we begin to see lift pump failures on the EcoDiesel. This tells me that the lift pump has reached full-service life at 150,000 miles and the reliability will decrease as more miles are accrued.

 

[TractorMan]

Mine did the same exact thing, CEL came on but mine immediately started chugging and dropped from 40 mph to maybe 15, then stalled within 100-150ft from the CEL coming on. I tried starting a few times, but would just crank. After maybe 3 or 4 minutes it finally restarted. I luckily had made it to my drive way, but was right in front of the garage door so I had to move so we could have access to our other vehicle.
I've called the dealer and FCA, multiple times because they don't call back, about it and pretty much have been told there is no fix yet and anything done would be out of pocket. I bought the truck at the dealer I called but they won't offer a loaner unless FCA approves. I haven't pressed the issue as the truck is still collecting snow in my driveway.
I hope your dealer had bad info about the Q3 lead time. It's a day over 2 weeks and has been a major pain, and my wife and I both work from home, most of the time.

good luck.try to let someone diagnose it, it may be something else as others have suggested. that does sound similar to my experience.

 

[Bounty Hunter]

Could be something other than the CP4?

You have major mileage on the truck and even the newer engine. Could be related to the injector timing issue the engines have with the reluctor wheel. After the dealer finally tears into it, come back with a simple report as to what it was.

Reluctor wheel failure will throw a code for crank position sensor.

 

[biodiesel]

Reluctor wheel failure will throw a code for crank position sensor.

This what my code reader showed when my tone wheel failed: