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Take a read on this link. Check out the compensation figures for the general auto workers. Quite an education in this article. Then you see the title of a strike by GM, kept alive by a bailout with your tax dollars.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/possibility-strike-looms-deadline-contract-negotiations-general-motors-uaw


Keep reading of price increases on the Ecodiesel and others. Year after year those increases just debilitate so many of us. Glad there's also "so many" that can't relate to this issue. Horrah for them and nuts to the rest of us.
 

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I guess they set the price as high as they can since a few will be sold at MSRP or close and if they aren't selling enough they offer rebates, Those that buy when the market is hot and rebates are non existant pay a higher price than waiting for a cheaper time to buy. I have also read articles about how the pickups and SUVs subsidize the making of the small high mileage cars that nobody wants but they have to sell at a loss to get the fleet average they need.

Clearly if you live where rust isn't a big problem a lightly used one or two year old truck is a bargain and a way to save money. ALso, buying what you need, not what you want can also save considerable money.
 

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Take a read on this link. Check out the compensation figures for the general auto workers. Quite an education in this article. Then you see the title of a strike by GM, kept alive by a bailout with your tax dollars.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/possibility-strike-looms-deadline-contract-negotiations-general-motors-uaw


Keep reading of price increases on the Ecodiesel and others. Year after year those increases just debilitate so many of us. Glad there's also "so many" that can't relate to this issue. Horrah for them and nuts to the rest of us.
Toyotas of various sorts are made in Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Texas, Indiana, and West Virginia. None of those plants are unionized. Priced a Tundra lately?

Vehicles, like everything else, cost what the market will bear. Corporations exist to maximize return on shareholder equity. Period.

The (in)famous "invisible hand" wears a nitrile glove and is up our butt.
 

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If we want more American manufacturing jobs then we should expect to pay higher prices. Otherwise there will be an influx of funky Chinese made vehicles sometime in the future for those wanting to pay less.
 

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Health care is crippling this country. Provide healthcare to all and you eliminate that bargaining chip. I know you guys are going to say it will cost more for everything but will it? The answer is no. Look at Australia and how they do their health care.
What I find most disturbing about the article is the comments at the end. Some of the most ignorant comments I have seen ever, especially from the MAGA isolationists freaks that are railing against women. Absolutely sickening.
 

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Health care is crippling this country. Provide healthcare to all and you eliminate that bargaining chip. I know you guys are going to say it will cost more for everything but will it? The answer is no. Look at Australia and how they do their health care.
What I find most disturbing about the article is the comments at the end. Some of the most ignorant comments I have seen ever, especially from the MAGA isolationists freaks that are railing against women. Absolutely sickening.
I suggest you have a look at the following article from Australia comparing vehicle prices. Note that all dollars in the article are Australian which equals about US$0.70. That means their luxury tax of about 33% applies to vehicles costing above about $US45,000. It has been a few years since I was last there but I can tell you then most everything was more expensive than in the US.

https://www.fleetcare.com.au/news-views/how-cost-competitive-are-cars-in-australia
 

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I suggest you have a look at the following article from Australia comparing vehicle prices. Note that all dollars in the article are Australian which equals about US$0.70. That means their luxury tax of about 33% applies to vehicles costing above about $US45,000. It has been a few years since I was last there but I can tell you then most everything was more expensive than in the US.

https://www.fleetcare.com.au/news-views/how-cost-competitive-are-cars-in-australia
That wasn't my point. My point is that they have a better health care system that overall costs sifnificantly less than the US. There are many factors that go into the pricing of a vehicle of course, but my point is that if remove the healthcare bargaining chip.

As a side note, I was a union member for about 17 years. Without the union my QOL would have totally sucked. I started at $27k flying a jet around the country. Pathetic. If I was still there my pay would be about $210-ish a year. The company screamed for years that they could not afford to pay us, and yet current pay is 9 times what it was when I started and yet the company is still doing fine... actually flourishing.
Us bottom feeders are fighting about crap like this while the wealthiest are buying $50M dollar airplanes at an unprecedented clip. Netjets just partnered with a mega yacht firm to make their clients travel "seamless".
 

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As it is healthcare is crippling, but healthcare for all is unimaginable let alone the border issues.

Yes, healthcare might be the number one issue but the healthcare lobby groups substantially outspend others lobby groups. So strong proposed changes have only been lip service to get politicians elected. And then the lobbyists write the laws to protect their profits/turf. Healthcare needs to be fixed before attempting to expand broken policy to the masses. Annual healthcare costs can't keep climbing at double digit rates.

Even then, healthcare will always be a limited resource. There's just not enough Drs, Rns, ER rooms, pharmaceuticals, schools to educate healthcare practitioners, for everyone to have all treatments they want. Healthcare will never be anything like the socialists pitch. There will always be limitations on what treatments are available to the individual, how much funds the individual has available to spend per year, and ethics boards will continue to decide how those limited resources are distributed.
 

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As it is healthcare is crippling, but healthcare for all is unimaginable let alone the border issues.

Yes, healthcare might be the number one issue but the healthcare lobby groups substantially outspend others lobby groups. So strong proposed changes have only been lip service to get politicians elected. And then the lobbyists write the laws to protect their profits/turf. Healthcare needs to be fixed before attempting to expand broken policy to the masses. Annual healthcare costs can't keep climbing at double digit rates.

Even then, healthcare will always be a limited resource. There's just not enough Drs, Rns, ER rooms, pharmaceuticals, schools to educate healthcare practitioners, for everyone to have all treatments they want. Healthcare will never be anything like the socialists pitch. There will always be limitations on what treatments are available to the individual, how much funds the individual has available to spend per year, and ethics boards will continue to decide how those limited resources are distributed.
Partisan politics. That is what is crippling this country.
We have spent $5.9 trillion dollars on wars since 2001. Don't tell me healthcare for all, in the richest country in the world, is not possible. Instead of saying it can't be done, we need to start asking ourselves how to solve problems.
 

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Partisan politics. That is what is crippling this country.
We have spent $5.9 trillion dollars on wars since 2001. Don't tell me healthcare for all, in the richest country in the world, is not possible. Instead of saying it can't be done, we need to start asking ourselves how to solve problems.
Exactly! First fix the healthcare system before expanding it.

The so-called "richest country in the world" has a growing $23T national debt and can't afford to let feel-good political pandering/pollyannaism overwhelm the facts. The past spending spree isn't sustainable unless the US considers selling assets. I recommend Illinois!

Healthcare is a difficult business and many already aren't making enough to offset the cost of school loans and the growing cost of employment benefits. Socialized medicine would likely reduce salaries and fewer people would consider a career in healthcare. There are many other details complicating socialized medicine.

That's not to say there aren't tough choices that can be made. It's been years of tweaking and yet healthcare remains broken.

Maggie once said, the problem with socialism is it eventually runs out of other people's money.
 

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I thought politics was kind of an off limits subject on the forum.
If the conversation is kept civil about general "political" topics like health care, insurance and what not, it might slide by.
If the conversation start going Left vs Right (or any combination of) that will be shut down immediately and the people involved will be met with hellfire and brimstone by the moderation staff.
 

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Why so expensive. Cos people buy them. Recession is coming within six months. Econoboxes will be in style again. Not 18mpg V8
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So now GM is on strike with all the plants shut down by the United Auto Workers.

Not sure of these exact figures but I just read GM employees average $85/hour with salary and benefits. Think Ford was in the 60's and FCA was around $55 an hour. GM was last on strike in 2007. That later ended with a government bailout where "we" paid to keep them afloat. That was how GM's diesel engine deal with V.M. Motor morphed to the Ecodiesel engine.

No opinions offered by me except it would be a "DREAM" to ever have made $50 an hour. An impossible dream hard to imagine. $85 and hour and striking????
 

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No opinions offered by me except it would be a "DREAM" to ever have made $50 an hour. An impossible dream hard to imagine. $85 and hour and striking????
The average assembly line worker is not making $50/hr plus benefits, the skilled trades might be close to that.
Keep in mind that GM net profits last year was $11.8 Billion (pre-tax) and they are closing four plants to "save money". The executives make in the hundreds of millions of dollars per year with guaranteed severance packages if they depart(or get "fired") from the company.
Don't try to infer that because the union line workers "make so much" is what's driving the cost of a vehicle up. They're the middle class that make up a good chunk of the population.
If anyone should be taking a pay cut and held liable forced out of their jobs for the company being "bailed out" by the government it should hbe the executives.
 

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Yep, that "hourly rate" is the benefits weighted rate GM pays including PTO, healthcare, retirement, life insurance , etc. I recall post bailout GM's hourly employee scale was dramatically docked. GM wants to reduce the benefit costs so it makes sense to highlight the weighted hourly rate number.

They say there's little inflation but you wouldn't know it looking at your paycheck these days. I'm not pro-union but it's a scary state of affairs when even large groups such as unions or state employees have to forgo benefits because they can't negotiate reasonable rates, premiums, etc. That tells you what small companies and individuals are up against - a rock and a hard place.

And we probably shouldn't forget some long term GM employees' pensions and GM stock value were depleted even after the government's pension guarantee program provided pennies on the dollar assistance.
 

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Vehicles of yesteryear had manual windows and locks, carburators and linkages few sensors and electronics, not much in the way of emissions control.

New vehicles have 2x as many seats, heated and cooled seats, more sensors than you can shake a stick at, expensive and complicated emissions systems, GPS, and tons of other, as my old man calls them, electric azz wipers.

I think that is a big part of why.
 

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The average assembly line worker is not making $50/hr plus benefits, the skilled trades might be close to that.
Keep in mind that GM net profits last year was $11.8 Billion (pre-tax) and they are closing four plants to "save money". The executives make in the hundreds of millions of dollars per year with guaranteed severance packages if they depart(or get "fired") from the company.
Don't try to infer that because the union line workers "make so much" is what's driving the cost of a vehicle up. They're the middle class that make up a good chunk of the population.
If anyone should be taking a pay cut and held liable forced out of their jobs for the company being "bailed out" by the government it should hbe the executives.
Crash,

Not a good example of a non political post from a Super Moderator. IF you want the facts about the CEO's total pay package I suggest the following Reuters article.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-compensation/gm-ceo-barras-pay-dipped-slightly-to-just-under-22-million-in-2018-idUSKCN1RU2AY

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

All the best,
 
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