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Discussion Starter #1
Hey folks, looking for opinions on Winter Tires. I am looking at 2 options for my stock 20 inch wheels that I have. If I went stock size, I have the choice of General Grabber Arctic in P Rated XL or Blizzak DM-V2 in P Rated S tires. Generals will probably run me about $900 and the Blazzaks about $1000 installed, give or take. 2nd choice, I could go up one size to 275/65R20 and go again with the General Grabber Arctic in LT LR-E or Firestone Winterforce in LT LR-E (looks like it is being discontinued, but still in stock in places). Both of these will also run me about $1000 Installed.

I am already committed on the Jeep to Firestone Winterforce, and feel they are a decent tire, and had good luck until I hit something in a storm and blew one out. I will be replacing them because the price is right on the Jeep.
 

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I drove a Subaru of a friends with the Blizzaks last winter, it was on packed snow and that car would rip like it was on dry pavement. I liked them so much I just bought a set from Tire Rack on rims and road force balanced, delivered for 18 hundred. 275/65-20. I can squeeze the tread blocks they are that soft. I'm waiting until the snow starts in earnest here in Michigan before I put them on.

Edit: That included the TPMS too
 

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Kind of hard to tell on a Subaru isn't it? I always put a few hundred pounds in the back of my truck to give the back some weight and even then I slip sometimes and need 4x4 from a light (here in Idaho). Now if you had winter tires w/ studs....
 

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I've been using Firestone Winterforce tires for years. I'v had good luck with them and the pricing has been the best by far.

I also buy separate wheels for the winter and try to get a skinnier tire by dropping a couple of rim sizes but keeping with the same diameter tire. When it comes to heavy snow wide is not what you want. My awd Audi was terrible in the snow with the stock 18" wide low profile tires! I changed to 16" Winterforce tires that were narrower and that thing was like a little tank in the snow!

Good snows make the difference between getting out and pushing and shoveling or just driving away.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Anyone see any benefit in going to the LT tires in the 65 series? I don't tow in the Winter. I got my LTX tires in the summer for that. Maybe put some weight in the bed if I have to move something heavy, but not excessive.

Also, the wider vs narrower debate, I feel it all depends on your areas road conditions. My area has a lot of packed snow when it snows, so a wider footprint is, IMHO, better.
 

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Also, the wider vs narrower debate, I feel it all depends on your areas road conditions. My area has a lot of packed snow when it snows, so a wider footprint is, IMHO, better.
I have to disagree. I guess its from working with heavy equipment. Track machines that worked in wet or swampy areas would have extra wide track pads to give them less ground pressure per square inch so that they wouldn't sink into the soft ground. In contrast machines that worked on ledge in quarry's used narrower tracks for higher ground pressure to keep them from sliding on the rock ledge.
So to me the higher ground pressure of a narrower tire should give you better traction in snow. ( I also add a couple of hundred pounds in the bed for higher ground pressure.)
The downside is that in dry conditions you will have less traction than a wider tire so there is a trade off I think in that respect. Overall I really don't think that it would be a huge difference between a little wider tire or a narrower tire in normal driving conditions, especially with 4WD.
I live in the Adirondacks @ 1250 ft where winter conditions can come on quickly and be rather extreme and I'm gettin old so driving a little slower in dry conditions is OK for me.
If I was still a flatlander living north of Boston I think that I would go for the wider tires.

Good luck and safe winter driving!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have to disagree. I guess its from working with heavy equipment. Track machines that worked in wet or swampy areas would have extra wide track pads to give them less ground pressure per square inch so that they wouldn't sink into the soft ground. In contrast machines that worked on ledge in quarry's used narrower tracks for higher ground pressure to keep them from sliding on the rock ledge.
So to me the higher ground pressure of a narrower tire should give you better traction in snow. ( I also add a couple of hundred pounds in the bed for higher ground pressure.)
The downside is that in dry conditions you will have less traction than a wider tire so there is a trade off I think in that respect. Overall I really don't think that it would be a huge difference between a little wider tire or a narrower tire in normal driving conditions, especially with 4WD.
I live in the Adirondacks @ 1250 ft where winter conditions can come on quickly and be rather extreme and I'm gettin old so driving a little slower in dry conditions is OK for me.
If I was still a flatlander living north of Boston I think that I would go for the wider tires.

Good luck and safe winter driving!
Now, I am coming from Racing experience. More contact you have with the ground, the more traction you have. Continental tire has even done test that say wider, on average, is better (Details here Wide tires). Also, I also think of it as ski vs snow shoe. But, we all have our opinions, and would love to see unbiased testing of this. (Stopping, Accelerating, Slalom with 2 sets (wide and narrow) of multiple brands of snow tires on a few different vehicles)

Still, for my questions, still looking for...
Opinions on the General Grabber Arctic tires.
Any reason to go LT 65's. I am thinking
Pros
- Tougher sidewall protection and 1/2 inch more rubber to the rim of the wheel.
- 1/2 inch more ground clearance
Cons
- Harsher Ride
- Less Fuel Efficiency.
 

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Now, I am coming from Racing experience. More contact you have with the ground, the more traction you have. Continental tire has even done test that say wider, on average, is better (Details here Wide tires). Also, I also think of it as ski vs snow shoe. But, we all have our opinions, and would love to see unbiased testing of this. (Stopping, Accelerating, Slalom with 2 sets (wide and narrow) of multiple brands of snow tires on a few different vehicles)

Still, for my questions, still looking for...
Opinions on the General Grabber Arctic tires.
Any reason to go LT 65's. I am thinking
Pros
- Tougher sidewall protection and 1/2 inch more rubber to the rim of the wheel.
- 1/2 inch more ground clearance
Cons
- Harsher Ride
- Less Fuel Efficiency.
Try pmctire.com they give good ratings for that tire
i priced new cooper discovrer m+s tires on 17s. 169$ each. And same tire in 10 ply about 230 each all can funds

the grabber is a typical winter tire with good ratings better than regulAr all terrain tired just compare the ratings
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Try pmctire.com they give good ratings for that tire
i priced new cooper discovrer m+s tires on 17s. 169$ each. And same tire in 10 ply about 230 each all can funds

the grabber is a typical winter tire with good ratings better than regulAr all terrain tired just compare the ratings
Thank you Dave. That web site had far more winter tires than I can find locally. And it also rated them with and without studs, although the only thing that would get studs would be the Jeep.
 

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I am running the Cooper M+S winters and they stick like a cat on carpet. Great winter tires.
 

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Long time Blizzak owner here. Run them on everything I own.

This is why... (I know snow and ice very well....)

WP_20140316_001.jpg WP_20150318_004.jpg WP_20150315_003.jpg
 

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I am running the Cooper M+S winters and they stick like a cat on carpet. Great winter tires.
Yes same here

What a lot of people need to understand is there is a difference between a all-terrain tire any actual winter snow tire
And when you look at the ratings you will see your performance is 30% better with actual snow tires versus what everyone else thinks is good

30% is a huge difference in winter conditions
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The final verdict....

Blizzaks size 275/60R20

Sent from my Samsung Note 4 using Tapatalk.
 

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The final verdict....

Blizzaks size 275/60R20

Sent from my Samsung Note 4 using Tapatalk.
These are the same ones I purchased for my truck two years ago. In fact, I swapped the all-season Wranglers for the Blizzak's today. This will be my third winter season. The tires are very good in the Utah mountains in winter when trekking to/from the ski resorts.
 

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For winter I went with 17" wheels, Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT, studded, excellent tires. Truck drives better, handles better than the stock summer tires, which are going to turn into Michelin defenders.
I will agree a wider tire on solid ice, but in deep snow a thinner tire.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Good to see that many folks value the increased performance characteristics of true winter tires
Dave, I became a believer when I bought wheels and Dunlop Wintersport 3D for my Dodge Caliber (Only tire in a close size at that time, but now there are more options). When I got the Jeep Liberty, the same wheels I got for the Caliber fit (with removal of the centering ring) on the Jeep. I immediately put Firestone Winterforce tires on them. Now, my experience falls on Deaf ears when I tell people. I always get the "Oh I run all season tires".
 

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Many years ago(1984 or so) I ran studded tires on my wife's car. Prior to that no matter what I did ice would put her in a ditch.

The illegal studs worked for years, then I came across a Blizzak info piece and tried a set.

Used them every year since. On in December off when the snow stops, been very happy with the results over many years.

Will try Xi2 if I live long enough to need replacements.....I use Tire Rack as my local stores have proved ignorant of both brands.

300 dollars or so a year is cheap compared to accidents with 1000 dollar deductible. LOL
 
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