[MAC NM]

Thank you RaceHillFarms for your real world test and photographs. I have a 2021 and will only use Peak BlueDEF Platinum.

 

[biodiesel]

I've read some believe that running the truck on short trips where the emission system is not allowed to come up to operating temperature and sustain an operating temperature may be the root cause of doser valve crystallization, I don't know but I do know arguing will not help us find the reason.

Not getting the truck up to operating temperature is the problem. This has been scientifically studied. There's a full study on the matter and this was the conclusion:

"This study has shown that the use of dedicated additives in DEF was an effective solution to significantly reduce urea related deposit formation below 200*C which could help OEMs to optimize SCR systems for cold and/or urban operating conditions."

 

[rfwalchli]

Not getting the truck up to operating temperature is the problem. This has been scientifically studied. There's a full study on the matter and this was the conclusion:

"This study has shown that the use of dedicated additives in DEF was an effective solution to significantly reduce urea related deposit formation below 200*C which could help OEMs to optimize SCR systems for cold and/or urban operating conditions."

Any chance you could post a link to the study?

The results of the study quoted don't make sense, 200 degrees C is 392 degrees F, which isn't very difficult to achieve, even idling. I see EGR temperature around 1,000 degrees F.

 

[biodiesel]

Any chance you could post a link to the study?

The Benefits of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Additivation on Urea-Derived Deposits Formation in a Close-Coupled Diesel SCR on Filter Exhaust Line on JSTOR

 

[Cletus]

The Benefits of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Additivation on Urea-Derived Deposits Formation in a Close-Coupled Diesel SCR on Filter Exhaust Line on JSTOR

Now that's the kind of evidence that is convincing - published articles in peer reviewed professional journals.

 

[biodiesel]

Now that's the kind of evidence that is convincing - published articles in peer reviewed professional journals.

Interestingly, this study was published a few years before Platinum DEF hit the market. Europe had already found a solution to deal with deposits. I wouldn't be surprised if Old World Industries (the manufacturer of BlueDEF) didn't help pay for this study in effort to create/market BlueDEF Platinum in the U.S.

The only real issue (and inconvenience) that I've had with my 2015 EcoDiesel was a clogged DEF injector. I kept getting the P20E9 code (reductant pressure too high). This happened off and on over a period of several months. I would also get the engine will not restart in X-number of miles. Eventually, the dealer replaced the DEF injector under warranty. As soon as Platinum was available, I switched over and haven't gone back to regular DEF. I buy it on sale and keep stocked up. Here's a picture of my stash.

 

[rfwalchli]

The Benefits of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Additivation on Urea-Derived Deposits Formation in a Close-Coupled Diesel SCR on Filter Exhaust Line on JSTOR

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, it looks like a school or library affiliation is required to read the study.

What is troubling is what I pulled from the abstract, "in terms of deposits formation on the mixer and SCRF canning at different temperatures comprised between 240°C and 165°C, and different air flows."

The temperatures are not much to speak of (464F and 329F) and does anyone know what an SCRF and mixer are, perhaps one is the dosing valve.

It looks like the study was done across the pond because of the references to AdBlue which is a European DEF brand. AdBlue is designed to meet Euro 6 car emissions. Also, look at the author's affiliations.

What is AdBlue and what does it do? Diesel exhaust fluid explained | Carbuyer

AdBlue is used to clean up the exhaust emissions of modern diesel cars – we cover everything you need to know

www.carbuyer.co.uk

 

[biodiesel]

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, it looks like a school or library affiliation is required to read the study.

If you create a username and password, they should give you a limited number of free views.

 

[rfwalchli]

If you create a username and password, they should give you a limited number of free views.

It only offers me access if I login into my chosen school or library from the list they provide which I no longer have. Perhaps you can past the text of the study.

 

[biodiesel]

It only offers me access if I login into my chosen school or library from the list they provide which I no longer have. Perhaps you can past the text of the study.

They may have changed the permissions. I've already exceeded my free access, so I can't log back in. The only thing I wrote down, by hand, was the last paragraph:

“This study has shown that the use of dedicated additives in DEF was an effective solution to significantly reduce urea related deposit formation below 200*C which could help OEMs to optimize SCR systems for cold and/or urban operating conditions.”

I also wrote down the other brands of Additivated DEF. I believe they compared DIAXOL (Total), CleanR Max (Renault Trucks Oil), and Air1 OptiSpray (Yara) to non-additivated DEF.

This study was done by the SAE. At that time, only Europe had Additivated DEF, so that's what they used for the study. Like I said, this study was published three years before Platinum DEF was released in the USA.

Here's what Air1 OptiSpray (Yara) says about their product in terms of reducing deposits: AdBlue® for Commercial Vehicles | Yara International

 

[Brokedownbutgood]

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, it looks like a school or library affiliation is required to read the study.

What is troubling is what I pulled from the abstract, "in terms of deposits formation on the mixer and SCRF canning at different temperatures comprised between 240°C and 165°C, and different air flows."

The temperatures are not much to speak of (464F and 329F) and does anyone know what an SCRF and mixer are, perhaps one is the dosing valve.

It looks like the study was done across the pond because of the references to AdBlue which is a European DEF brand. AdBlue is designed to meet Euro 6 car emissions. Also, look at the author's affiliations.

What is AdBlue and what does it do? Diesel exhaust fluid explained | Carbuyer

AdBlue is used to clean up the exhaust emissions of modern diesel cars – we cover everything you need to know

www.carbuyer.co.uk

AdBlue is diesel exhaust fluid just in overseas lingo. SCRF is the face of the scr or selective catalyst convertor. The diesel exhaust fluid gets dosed or sprayed in before the scr to create the correct chemical properties in the exhaust for the scr to break apart NOx emissions. It needs to be in a certain temperature range to work correctly. The heat you mention as not much to speak of are very hot as the heat is produced in cylinder and 329 F at the scr is hard to get. So modern diesels inject diesel into the exhaust not just for regen but to warm up the exhaust to get the doc (diesel oxidation catalyst) and scr up to temp quicker. Think of it this way you need egts of at least 329 F after the turbo, doc, dpf, and multiple feet of exhaust piping. Normal temp drop across just the turbo is around 200-300 F so its complicated to do.

 

[rfwalchli]

It looks like the additive in Blue DEF Platinum may parallel what is used in Europe, a surfactant (sometimes called a wetting agent) that reduces the surface tension thus preventing crystalization, interesting. Based on what I'm learning here, I may rethink and start using the platinum, not for the doser valve since I don't have an issue with crystalization but for the health of the SCR.

I need to go have a chat with one of my sons, he is a chemist albeit in a different field but the rules may be the same.

 

[Cletus]

What would be swell is if someone marketed and sold such an additive standalone. Then I could still buy my DEF at the convenience of the truck pumps. The hassle and waste associated with the jugs is a major turn-off for me. Either way, I'm going to stick to my current practice until it becomes an issue.

 

[Bounty Hunter]

I may rethink and start using the platinum, not for the doser valve since I don't have an issue with crystalization but for the health of the SCR.

Are SCR's failing from DEF crystallization in the Ecodiesel? If they are, I haven't heard of it.

 

[rfwalchli]

Are SCR's failing from DEF crystallization in the Ecodiesel? If they are, I haven't heard of it.

Be careful, you will start a rumor.

I've not heard of any issues with diesel emission systems. My 2015 Cummins was recalled and they replace the SCR, which was several years ago. I didn't have an issue but RAM thought there could be one, I think it was about the possibility of failing to meet EPA requirements.

My SCR comment comes from the reading I did in the links provided in this thread. Without going back to review, it was along the line of wetting agents in the DEF causing complete DEF conversion once injected, good for the SCR.

 

[rfwalchli]

What would be swell is if someone marketed and sold such an additive standalone. Then I could still buy my DEF at the convenience of the truck pumps. The hassle and waste associated with the jugs is a major turn-off for me. Either way, I'm going to stick to my current practice until it becomes an issue.

Well, wetting agents are common and my wife has a few bottles she uses in her greenhouse. While I find it interesting to try this, I'm not going to, I'm chicken. Besides, I don't have the resources to do a study on how wetting agents affect DEF doser valves.

I'm with you, it would be great to see someone with the resources offer up a DEF additive. While wetting agents are expensive so to speak, the amount used is minimal and certainly does not reflect in the price delta they get for DEF Platinum.

 

[Dieseldragon]

Well, wetting agents are common and my wife has a few bottles she uses in her greenhouse. While I find it interesting to try this, I'm not going to, I'm chicken. Besides, I don't have the resources to do a study on how wetting agents affect DEF doser valves.

I'm with you, it would be great to see someone with the resources offer up a DEF additive. While wetting agents are expensive so to speak, the amount used is minimal and certainly does not reflect in the price delta they get for DEF Platinum.

Hi: rfwalchli... The only "Wetting agent" I have ever had to deal with is me... getting out of bed at night. Even the sound of pumping fuel can get me going!!!
My motto when driving the bus was "Don't throw away your pop can"!!!
Dieseldragon North shore of Lake Erie.

 

[Bounty Hunter]

Be careful, you will start a rumor.

Well you were the one suggesting it as an issue, I was just asking for evidence of this claim.