[gtsav2006]

So I've been taking a little different approach, but have been in fairly constant contact with @wasaab and we have been sharing our results.

Yesterday, I took by spare ECM and cloned my stock ECM image. Everything worked fine. Then I performed the same cloning my GDE image to the spare ECM. Again everything worked perfectly. So for the folks that just want a spare GDE ECM this is entirely possible and actually quite easy once you have the tools.

I am using KTM Bench, it is a Chinese clone of PCM Flash. (This will be the last time I mention the tool name, I don't want to get in trouble with anyway promoting copies of tools). This does not required opening the ECM, you just have to remove it.

1. Remove the ECM to be cloned.
2. Find the image for hookup of EDC17C79, connect up 7 wires to the ECM connector.
3. Using Module 71, read EEPROM and then FLASH.
4. Connect up the spare ecm using the same hookup procedures.
5. Again using Module 71, write EEPROM and then FLASH (Order doesn't matter in RD/WR, just have to do both).
6. Install cloned (spare) ECM, set key to run, what 10 seconds, turn key off, wait 2 minutes for everything to shut down, then crank your vehicle.

Step 6 is from GDE original install instructions. Our EEPROM is emulated in FLASH and is actually two sectors that alternate each time the EEPROM is updated. I believe what this procedure does is copy the EEPROM data to both sectors in the event that the wrong sector is being "looked" at on the first key on event. (This is just a theory, but it hasn't failed me yet)

Currently researching doing a VIN swap via EEPROM edits. I think it is possible, but looking into ways to calculate the checksum. I believe I found a couple of options. WinOLS should be able to do it, but I can't figure out how to get it to recognize an EEPROM from our ECM and associate the correct checksum plug-in.

 

[Kazimodo]

WOW !!!!! I don't understand 90% of the stuff
i just know it smells like success , Attaboy guys !

 

[Dieselfever]

@gtsav2006, this is good news. Keep up the good work. It would be nice to have a cloned GDE spare in case the original malfunctions or gets flashed. I also would like the option to delete DPF and SCR in the future when those systems fail after warranty expiration. Do you think KTM Bench is capable of those deletes?

 

[gtsav2006]

@gtsav2006, this is good news. Keep up the good work. It would be nice to have a cloned GDE spare in case the original malfunctions or gets flashed. I also would like the option to delete DPF and SCR in the future when those systems fail after warranty expiration. Do you think KTM Bench is capable of those deletes?

PCM Flash or alternative just reads the data files. All of the changes that tuner's (people, not tools to be clear) make occur in the FLASH data, which you can read using PCM Flash or an alternative tool. Turning off DPF and SCR is just a matter of knowing what to look for in the FLASH data. MapPacks exist for our ECU, but we don't have access to one yet and I am pretty sure they are specific to a certain firmware. My GDE FLASH from a 2017 Ram looks significantly different than @wasaab's GDE FLASH from a 2014 (I believe, it's definitely appears older than mine.) For example, GDE disabled DEF in the 2017's because apparently the change's to the 2017 code was significant enough that he had difficulties either finding or making adjustments to leave DEF enabled. I'm extremely curious to see what happens if I can get @wasaab's GDE image running in my truck. I am expecting to get some codes related to DEF.

 

[wasaab]

So I've been taking a little different approach, but have been in fairly constant with @wasaab and we have been sharing our results.

Yesterday, I took by spare ECM and cloned my stock ECM image. Everything worked fine. Then I performed the same cloning my GDE image to the spare ECM. Again everything worked perfectly. So for the folks that just want a spare GDE ECM this is entirely possible and actually quite easy once you have the tools.

I am using KTM Bench, it is a Chinese clone of PCM Flash. (This will be the last time I mention the tool name, I don't want to get in trouble with anyway promoting copies of tools). This does not required opening the ECM, you just have to remove it.

1. Remove the ECM to be cloned.
2. Find the image for hookup of EDC17C79, connect up 7 wires to the ECM connector.
3. Using Module 71, read EEPROM and then FLASH.
4. Connect up the spare ecm using the same hookup procedures.
5. Again using Module 71, write EEPROM and then FLASH (Order doesn't matter in RD/WR, just have to do both).
6. Install cloned (spare) ECM, set key to run, what 10 seconds, turn key off, wait 2 minutes for everything to shut down, then crank your vehicle.

Step 6 is from GDE original install instructions. Our EEPROM is emulated in FLASH and is actually two sectors that alternate each time the EEPROM is updated. I believe what this procedure does is copy the EEPROM data to both sectors in the event that the wrong sector is being "looked" at on the first key on event. (This is just a theory, but it hasn't failed me yet)

Currently researching doing a VIN swap via EEPROM edits. I think it is possible, but looking into ways to calculate the checksum. I believe I found a couple of options. WinOLS should be able to do it, but I can't figure out how to get it to recognize an EEPROM from our ECM and associate the correct checksum plug-in.

Just want to mention that @jtsav2006 has been instrumental in this process. Without his help and wisdom throughout this process, I don't think I would have gotten as far as I did in this process. It's been a fun and challenging process to learn about this ECM, and I wanted to make sure he also gets the credit deserved for his efforts. We are still working out more details in this process and I'm confident we can figure this out further for the benefit of the community here. Right now we unfortunately don't have all the answers, as @jtsav2006 outlined above the cloning process is very easy and straightforward. Creating a working FCA stock tune ECM is not as easy. It appears I may have been extremely fortunate finding a used ECM with the correct software versions etc to allow me to use part of my GDE files to make a working stock ECM. What I would like to do is find another used one and try again using different files to see if we can identify a pattern to making this work. Anyway just wanted to thank @jtsav2006 for all his efforts in this project as well.

 

[wasaab]

wasaab - could this be used to update from a HotTune to a full delete...theoretically...

Theoretically anything is possible, unfortunately the data contained in the Flash section is extremely complex so right now without the proper areas of the Map documented, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. We are still working on understanding how this all works.

 

[gtsav2006]

I know gde was completely fine programming ECUs for customers and all they had was the VIN and injector codes. They didn't have the original ECU to compare. I know many of the features can be found based on the VIN. Their ecu's work perfectly.

You are correct, but based on the evidence I have seen this far, GDE wasn't just sending the same firmware version for every person. Maybe it was just based on model year; not sure at this point. GDE disabled DEF on 2017's at least for a period, because the firmware was different enough to cause headaches. Something was also changed for 2018; we know this because of the security-bypass cable requirement.

Can you "rollback" firmware on the newer trucks? Hopefully we'll see if I can get @wasaab's GDE image running on my truck. That would be nice, as some folks would probably be happy with just a pre-AEM stock tune and maybe EGR disabled. I'm hoping I can do this with my wife's jeep.

 

[brianw0048]

Theoretically anything is possible, unfortunately the data contained in the Flash section is extremely complex so right now without the proper areas of the Map documented, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. We are still working on understanding how this all works.

What about cloning a GDE ecm with off road tuning, then updating the vin and injector codes?

 

[Kazimodo]

wasaab , if possible , do yourself a favor and load gtsav2006's version of GDE Hot tune
in your ECM , when I got mine in 2018 GDE told me of so many changes since 2014 ,,,
----
-like 2014 version not yet compatible with EGR coolerstage 2 delete ,only OK with stage 1 .
ref: post# 11 in here : https://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/introductions/62974-need-help-po-403-code.html#post950702

-like engine brake 2014 version reacting with EGR cooler => linked page 6 , see middle

 

[Kazimodo]

Not nice for GDE ,
but there could be a few versions of GDE hot tune containing many options that could
be loaded in stock ECMs to upgrade the system for people stuck with crappy AEM tunes.
some versions Hot Tune ,
some versions Off Road tune .

 

[gtsav2006]

wasaab , if possible , do yourself a favor and load gtsav2006's version of GDE Hot tune
in your ECM , when I got mine in 2018 GDE told me of so many changes since 2014 ,,,
----
-like 2014 version not yet compatible with EGR coolerstage 2 delete ,only OK with stage 1 .
ref: post# 11 in here : https://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/introductions/62974-need-help-po-403-code.html#post950702

-like engine brake 2014 version reacting with EGR cooler => linked page 6 , see middle

Sorry, I should clarify. I'm pretty sure @wasaab purchased his GDE tune after me. It's just that assumably, based on @wasaab's model year, the GDE tune he received is based on an earlier version of OEM firmware. GDE doesn't create his own firmware, he modifications are based on OEM firmware. I would hope that GDE updated all firmware versions he shipped as he perfected them.

 

[Kazimodo]

OK , I get it , the module itself is the same ,
the software/firmware ( I don't know the difference ??) is said to be different in 2017 and 2018
reason why the Edge monitors don't work well with 2017 and 2018 ,
going to be something to consider 2014 to 2016 is going to be different in some way
from 2017/2018.
GDE tried to always use the latest FCA tune and add their magic to that latest release ,
that is why they even made the latest AEM release work with their changes last spring.
--
wonder what the hiccups would be trying to load a 2017 tune on a 2014 truck ??

 

[gtsav2006]

What about cloning a GDE ecm with off road tuning, then updating the vin and injector codes?

Personally I'm not going down this road. Not only is it unethical, but presumably GDE will be back in business at some point with emissions compliant tuning. If that happens, I don't doubt GDE would have any issues with reporting someone to the EPA for selling the tuning that he got in trouble for and would like to be still selling.

Now if we can figure out the changes that can be made to disable DPF, I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to make that change in their existing ECM. There's software that exists that supposedly auto-magically delete DFR, EGR, etc from a FLASH file, but I don't know how reliable they are and if they will work on our ECM (and also the various firmware versions). If we could find an image of the same firmware version as @wassab, but setup with GDE offroad, it should be fairly easy to figure out how to disable the DPF.

 

[gtsav2006]

OK , I get it , the module itself is the same ,
the software/firmware ( I don't know the difference ??) is said to be different in 2017 and 2018
reason why the Edge monitors don't work well with 2017 and 2018 ,
going to be something to consider 2014 to 2016 is going to be different in some way
from 2017/2018.
GDE tried to always use the latest FCA tune and add their magic to that latest release ,
that is why they even made the latest AEM release work with their changes last spring.
--
wonder what the hiccups would be trying to load a 2017 tune on a 2014 truck ??

"Firmware" is a bit of a misnomer in this day and age. Firmware by definition is software that is programmed into permanent memory. But now we have EEPROM (Electronical Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory). But our ECM emulates EEPROM using FLASH, which in really simple terms is a non-volatile storage medium. Bottomline, firmware is no longer permanent in anything, but we typically think of firmware as having less turnover than "general software."

I just started using the term "Firmware" because 4 out of the 5 ECM's in my possession have a sticker with a "Firmware P/N" and this is how I track the various software images that I have read. I haven't noticed the actual firmware P/N in any of the EEPROM or FLASH files that I've looked at, but there appears to be other identifiers that glue the EEPROM and FLASH together.

 

[gtsav2006]

wonder what the hiccups would be trying to load a 2017 tune on a 2014 truck ??

So I'm going to try the other way around. 2014 tune on 2017. I expect to get DEF errors if I can get it to run.

 

[brianw0048]

Personally I'm not going down this road. Not only is it unethical, but presumably GDE will be back in business at some point with emissions compliant tuning.

I don’t see it as any more unethical than imaging wasaab’s tune on your truck.

I don’t want to sell tunes, I just want to be able to fully delete at some point. My tune was updated post AEM.

 

[wasaab]

wasaab , if possible , do yourself a favor and load gtsav2006's version of GDE Hot tune
in your ECM , when I got mine in 2018 GDE told me of so many changes since 2014 ,,,
----
-like 2014 version not yet compatible with EGR coolerstage 2 delete ,only OK with stage 1 .
ref: post# 11 in here : https://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/introductions/62974-need-help-po-403-code.html#post950702

-like engine brake 2014 version reacting with EGR cooler => linked page 6 , see middle

Mine was purchased and loaded as of Sept 2018, so I do believe it is the latest. Please don't get me wrong I don't want to come across as accusatory or upset with anyone here, because I am not. This forum is great and the people here are very helpful and wonderful to chat with. But I do feel it necessary to mention I do not condone piracy of and/or loading of others' tunes unless they have been purchased. I do understand GDE, at least for now, is not selling these tunes. However, they (GDE) have worked hard on developing this tune and they deserve the compensation for their work, and rightly so, as we are now starting to see how difficult this whole thing is. What me and gtsav2006 are doing is merely to understand how this all works. I will not load another tune and keep said tune on my truck in good conscience. The whole reason for me to start this whole thing in the first place was to allow use of a used stock ECM on any truck to allow us to keep the tunes we already purchased safe. I hope everyone understands.

 

[wasaab]

I don’t see it as any more unethical than imaging wasaab’s tune on your truck.

I don’t want to sell tunes, I just want to be able to fully delete at some point. My tune was updated post AEM.

Again this is to understand what portions of the ECM allow the EEPROM to communicate together and to determine which parts are relevant to the immobilizer system to allow the truck to start. @gtsav2006 already purchased his tune and I doubt he will be keeping it on his ECM after the testing anyway. As far as I'm concerned mine would be a bit of a downgrade for him as I still have DEF option, no high idle or any of the other options but engine braking. We are hoping this research is for the good of the community here, however if things go south I will no longer communicate my findings on this forum. I hope everyone can understand our position on this, we are not here to educate anyone on how to steal a tune and load it on their ECM. This started out as how can I write my VIN# to a used ECM and we are keeping it as such. If you want to dig through the maps and figure out how to turn off your own EGR systems etc as @gtsav2006 mentioned have at it.

 

[Kazimodo]

Understood , I personnally kept my stock ECM so I have no stress ,
but as of sept.18th , those with no back-up would surely relax if there
was a way to purchase a used ECM and change it to a stock back-up ,
I think that it was the idea when this thread started , of course there will
always be the few ones who expect to get everything for nothing , I'm
sure you'll know how to deal with that .

 

[wasaab]

Understood , I personnally kept my stock ECM so I have no stress ,
but as of sept.18th , those with no back-up would surely relax if there
was a way to purchase a used ECM and change it to a stock back-up ,
I think that it was the idea when this thread started , of course there will
always be the few ones who expect to get everything for nothing , I'm
sure you'll know how to deal with that .

Thanks @Kazimodo I appreciate your sincere words. It is still my desire to help those that need a stock tune, and I do wish to understand this a bit more with the research that is being carried out. There is still much to learn with regards to this particular ECM.