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Thanks Haul and Grass. Nice to see you still hanging out here. Hope the Hay season is going swell for you.

Just cleaned my DEF injector with a small hand held steam cleaner. The injector side was caked up bad. The port side going into the SCR was plugged shut. I mean really shut. Solid piece of urea chalk. No way DEF was getting through that. Cleaned it out and put the tip of my steam cleaner in the SCR and it gave it a good blast.

I don't see how this could be related to my P203E code, but it is the other end of the system and with some luck it might get rid of the code. In any case, it was a place to start. I will reset the P203E code and see what happens. Yesterday I put 5 gallons of new DEF in the tank and the gauge still shows less than a quarter tank. I know the gauge on the dash at least gets power. It flutters when turning on the ignition.

So if cleaning up the DEF injector does not work, I will be dropping the DEF tank tomorrow morning and putting distilled water in it for a few hours. I will poke around and see if it is possible to get my steam cleaner in it to clean the sensor.

I will report back here once I have more info. Currently, I am at 100 miles until no start. BTW, does anyone know if the emergency starting procedure works (the one where you jump pins) for situations like this in case I need it.
 

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Cleaning the DEF nozzle and SCR port where the nozzle attaches did not seem to make a difference. Cleared all codes before test drive. 20 miles later code came back along with warning "will not start in XX miles". Low DEF symbol is still on on the dash. It never went off.

Suppose I will be dropping the DEF tank in the next few hours.
 

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Just a update on the Def Tank Removal and cleaning.

I took the tank out by:

Removing the skid plates on my Outdoorsman and the plastic skid plate on the DEF tank.

Disconnected the DEF filler tube on top of the tank. Two green tabs on the fitting. Need to push both of them in to get it to let loose.

Siphoned out the 6 gallons or so of DEF in the tank. I used a cheap manual transfer pump to get a vacuum going. I cut down the length of the hose so the flow was more efficient. I left about 2 feet of hose on both sides of the pump. It still took about 20 minutes to drain into a 3 1/2 gallon bucket. At the end there was about a cup or so left in the tank. Maybe it was trapped in the sensor body.

Disconnected the DEF line that went from the tank to the DEF injector nozzle.

Disconnected the two electrical wire harnesses from the DEF tank.

Removed the tank hangers holding up the tank. The front one first, then the rear.

Disconnected another line on the top of the DEF tank that ran to the rear of the truck. Have no idea on what that does. Perhaps a vent tube?

Now I had the tank which was nearly empty on the ground. I suppose it weighs about 15 lbs. To get the rest of the DEF fluid out, I used a piece of 1/2" pex tubing (about 18 inches) and inserted the end of a funnel in that. This kept the trap door open and it allowed me to get the vast majority of the remaining DEF out of the tank by tilting the tank on its end.

I left all of that in the tank and fired up my steam cleaner. I then inserted my stream cleaner nozzle into the funnel and gave it a long blast of steam. About 30 seconds or so.

I then put two gallons of distilled water in the tank and steam blasted again for another 30 seconds.

Next I put in 6 more gallons of 90F distilled water that had been sitting in the sun and blasted the inside of the tank one more time for a minute.

I left it sit overnight and this morning I pumped the distilled water out and reinstalled the tank and connections. On the def line connection on the tank I blasted it with steam as well to clean it. There is a little stainless steel needle that sits inside the plastic fitting. I took that out and made sure DEF could flow through by soaking in hot water then flushing. Reinstalled that little needle and reconnected the line coming from the DEF nozzle to it.

Put 2 1/2 gallons of Peak Blue DEF in it that was produced in February of this year.

Reset/cleared the MIL codes on the truck with my code scanner.

Drove it for about 40 miles and the code came back. The low DEF icon on the dash never went off. It came on with about 150 miles left on the no restart message.

I now have about 32 miles before the truck will not restart.

I called my local FCA rep and left him a voice mail explaining what was going on. I have not heard back from him yet.

IMG_20180715_133533639.jpg
Before I started

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My tools and supplies

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Pex tube in tank to keep the trap door open, funnel in pex

IMG_20180715_183629515.jpg
Steam cleaner in funnel

IMG_20180716_084322908.jpg
Stainless needle that resides inside the plastic tube that is part of the DEF tank and DEF line to the DEF spray nozzle.
I removed by inserting a small drill bit inside the stainless needle and pulled it out.
 

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Sheep , don't sweat the no start part , you can still start the truck ,
instructions in a PDF file , it is in the link between the 2 pictures of post #3
in here , Star case #S1625000005
,,,,,mbaessler made it work easily .says so in post #13
..
jump pin 30 and 87 of start relay ,with key at run position ,
there is a video in the thread showing how to achieve the jump start .in post # 9 , it is not a Ecodiesel
but you get the idea that you will not get a shock from the pin held with fingers .
 

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Sheep , don't sweat the no start part , you can still start the truck ,
instructions in a PDF file , it is in the link between the 2 pictures of post #3
in here , Star case #S1625000005
,,,,,mbaessler made it work easily .says so in post #13
..
jump pin 30 and 87 of start relay ,with key at run position ,
there is a video in the thread showing how to achieve the jump start .in post # 9 , it is not a Ecodiesel
but you get the idea that you will not get a shock from the pin held with fingers .
Thanks Man!

I am prepared... I think because of this thread.

I will let everyone know how it goes.
 

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Saw this and thought I'd add something I think could help someone. (forgive me if it's already been mentioned). I saw a great video where a guy cleaned his DEF injector using pressurized steam. It seems to work really well to break apart those white crystallized deposits. I bought one on eBay for under $30. Seems to work pretty well, though I haven't tried it on the injector yet. I'd use only deionized or distilled water in it though.
 

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Thanks Man!

I am prepared... I think because of this thread.

I will let everyone know how it goes.
Very good write up! So very disappointing that with all your efforts, the problem wasn't fixed. I hope you get it straightened out soon. So glad we have the GDE tune option available to avoid all this mess and hassle.
 

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Saw this and thought I'd add something I think could help someone. (forgive me if it's already been mentioned). I saw a great video where a guy cleaned his DEF injector using pressurized steam. It seems to work really well to break apart those white crystallized deposits. I bought one on eBay for under $30. Seems to work pretty well, though I haven't tried it on the injector yet. I'd use only deionized or distilled water in it though.
Yes, that works like a champ. I did the same thing the day before I removed the DEF tank to see if that would fix it.

Steam cleaner cleaned it right up.
 

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Update.

So far my FCA rep is not returning my calls or email. I will give him another day.

Now to the important stuff. I had 1 mile left before a no restart when I pulled into my servicing dealer this afternoon. I talked to my service rep and the diesel mechanic and showed them the condition. Mechanic pulled it in to shop and read the code. P203E. He then searched for Starcases and RPT's but did not find any in the system related to that code.

So we tried to reset the DEF level in the PCM and it did not work. Eventually, the 1 mile went away and got a "will not restart" message on the display.

I went through the repair procedure with him on his computer and basically said to replace tank, if that does not work then replace the PCM. I asked how much
and was quoted $2,644.00 for the tank without labor. Was quoted $712.00 for the PCM.

I ended up trying the "emergency jump start" procedure to get it out of the shop and back on the road. It worked. Mechanic said that is good to know. I chuckled and said it sure is and drove away.

Below is a picture of what I used. It is a about a 10" piece of lead out wire bent in half. It is aluminum 6 gauge and is double insulated. Typically it used in electric fencing projects around livestock. It just so happens I have a bunch of it due to my vocation. It worked perfect.

IMG_20180717_145804896.jpg

If this continues I will make version 2.0 of it. It will be pressed into a shape of the bird...if you know what I mean. Knuckles, with 1 finger extended upward.
 
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Update.


I asked how much ....and was quoted $2,644.00 for the tank without labor. Was quoted $712.00 for the PCM.

I ended up trying the "emergency jump start" ....... I chuckled and said it sure is and drove away.
If this continues I will make version 2.0 of it. ..., with 1 finger extended upward.
..
At that price , the GDE hot tune with $50 option to turn DEF completely OFF , would be cheaper ,
( only if one can live with the guilt ( LOL ) of the added pollution ,,,, )
 

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all I have in my error code file on P203E :

"" P203e = by Lonestar 4X4 : I had a similar issue, started to notice that the guage was not moving
the last 1/8 of a tank. When I filled it up I took 7-1/2 gallon and registered full.
After about another 6000 miles the p203e code came on, I cleared it and it came on at
about another 150 miles. I drained the tank and removed it. Flushed it out with Hot water
and put it and the pump back in. It's been about 1500 miles and have no more issues.
I thought I read somewhere that the DEF sensor was an optical sensor and the computer
only looked at it periodically.If the system is still functioning and no change in the
level I'd think that as long as you don't get that 200 mile to no start message you'd
be good with a faulty gauge. ""

sorry I have no link to the thread where I copied that from .
 

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Update.

I did hear from my Ram rep today. Also talked to FCA customer service tier 2 person. We have a appointment on the books for Tuesday to have it looked at.

Tonight the DEF symbol on the dash went away as well as the Engine will not restart.

I confirmed that I still can not start engine under normal procedures. But, removing the starting relay and jumping across the pins does still work.

However, I have "Service DEF system. See Dealer" as a replacement. Also the following 2 new codes are present:

P203F
P249C


My code reader will not reset those codes.

I will keep this updated as more info comes in.
 
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Just a follow up.

This started for me on 7-14-18. My DEF level sensor failed somewhere between 69,000 - 79,800 miles. The DEF level sensor is molded into the DEF tank and if it fails, you need a new DEF tank, if you are required by vehicle smog testing to keep all of the emissions in tack.

I ended up replacing the DEF Tank after trying for almost 6 weeks to get FCA to pay for based on the fact that my truck is registered and licensed in the state of Utah in a county where I need to get emissions test. Under federal emissions up until 80K miles, all components are covered if the vehicle is registered in a place where emissions test are required and you need to pass that test in order to get registration and or tabs.

I am still not through with FCA and will be talking to them again on Monday. But I got tired of there BS and having to start my truck with a wire every time I need to drive somewhere.

During the process I visited 2 different RAM dealerships and talked to them about the issues. Each time, they plugged it in and tried to reset codes. One dealership said the level sensor was possibly bad. If not that, then the PCM. They wanted to charge me $2,600.00 for the DEF tank. The other dealership told me only the DEF pump was bad and they wanted $1,500.00 for a new DEF pump.

The codes where the same for each dealer, they both had WiTech micropod II's that where linked to WiTech software.

How 2 different trained and certified techs came to 2 different conclusions while using the same tools is one of the things I am talking to FCA about. That should not happen.

What I ended up doing to troubleshoot on my own time is get a 3 day subscription to Tech Authority. This is the same resource that FCA engineers and Dealer techs have.

https://www.techauthority.com/en-us/products/?category=1

I read up on the MIL codes and learned just how intuitive it was to follow the workflow and logic in trouble shooting a issue. It is simple. Most folks should be able to do this. Certainly, a factory trained technician. Even level 3's.

Next I purchased a copy of AppCar software and installed it on a windows 10 laptop. Within the PCM module, there is a diagnostic interface to see live data. I interfaced my LX code scanner to the OBDI II port of my truck and paired it with my software and laptop. I went into the PCM module and selected the UREA system analysis where I could see real time info on voltage, volume in mm, temperature and concentration. The only parameter I could get in real time was temp. The others where reading 0.00. Using my 3 day Tech Authority I could look at schematics and see that the temperature data is coming from a different wiring harness. So that made me suspicious of the other four wire connector which attaches to the DEF pump.

Next I looked for those part numbers on TechAuthority and found them. Next I googled the part numbers. I got multiple hits for the part numbers. The official Mopar site is the most expensive. Often 50% more in cost than the 30 or so authorized Mopar online parts shops. The same OEM parts at different price levels. Go figure!

Clicking in the return hits on google I also found new OEM parts on eBay at almost 1/10th the cost of the official Mopar site.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEF-Pump-EcoDiesel-3-0L-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-Ram-and-Promaster-14-16-NEW-OEM/253825959935?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144F

Still I was feeling ripped off. I mean, this thing did not even last past 80K. How in the world did this part even make it out of review? FCA knew this part could fail at anytime? Yet, they still chose to release it and go into production with it.

Next I remembered somewhere here in another thread mention Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market for used parts. I went there and entered into the search area what I was looking for. I found a DEF tank and DEF pump out of the same wrecked 2015 eco D with 26K miles about 1 hour away. I called the auto salvaged yard that had it listed and they wanted $350.00 for the DEF tank and another $300.00 for the DEF pump. I continued to look at the results from my query on car-part.com and found a 2016 eco D with 21K miles in Oklahoma. They wanted $300.00 for the DEF tank and DEF pump combined. For another $50.00 they shipped it to me UPS and I had it within 5 business days.

I just got it installed yesterday after work. It took me about a hour. The first thing I did was pull the DEF pump on my truck and put the DEF pump from the wreck on it. Using my laptop with AppCar, I went back into the PCM module and checked the UREA section to see what values I was getting. Nothing new, it was the same as my values in my DEF pump. So that told me that perhaps it was the DEF level sensor in my tank. So I put the new to me DEF tank in and the DEF pump that came with it back in. Put all the connectors back together and wrenched the tank in, put back my skip plates and cross support. Then I cleared the codes, looked at my UREA section in the AppCar software and saw a value for level in mm, urea concentration and voltage.

Man I was happy. I put the starter relay back in and started my truck with a key fob (the first time in 6 weeks) and then test drove my truck. I got about 4 miles and cel came back on with the same message, that I needed to see dealer to have my DEF system serviced. Once I got home, I reset the codes again. Turned off my truck and went inside the house for a beer. After beer, I went back out to see if it would start. It did. Great. More beer and some sleep was in order. So that is what I did. Today, I drove it about 60 miles on the interstate and all codes remained off.

Problem solved. But FCA is not off the hook. I still have a bone to pick with them.

Now, I still have my original DEF tank and DEF pump. I will keep the pump, as I might need one of those again. Perhaps. We will see. Regarding the tank, I was thinking about cutting a hole in the top and yanking out that DEF level sensor to see if I can find out who is responsible for the POS design so I know who to bitch at later. Unless someone here has a better idea, that is what I will do.

IMG_20180825_164332210.jpg

My old DEF tank with removed DEF pump.
 

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Good work !!!! Sheepdogtrail .... I traded my 2014 truck and the new owner had def issues ,requiring a new def tank and ECU , I agree there’s been more than just a couple def tanks go bad ... I vote cut the tank open,let’s see what’s going on inside :confused:

You did nice work along with a very helpful post ,Thank you for keeping the forum updated....Unfortunately it’s post like yours that make forums a go to place for help ....
 

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I cut off one end of the DEF tank and had a look inside to see if I could remove the def level sensor.

The short answer is no.

During manufacturing process the level sensor is epoxied to the tank.

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Looking into tank.

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From a distance to get some perspective.

I really have no idea what purpose the white tube hanging down from the top of the tank serves. It is a non electrical connection. Perhaps just a second but larger vent. Any one know what that is used for?
 

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How hard was it to remove. Are the bolts hidden and hard to reach. I ask as I have no use for it now and guess I will be draining it since getting hot tune. Or is it ok just sitting in there? Winter time is coming. Or all it is is added weight? Anyone need a def tank?
 

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Perhaps someone knows if the DEF sensor has a voltage output and if so, what is the voltage range. It would be easy to bugger the voltage. Your gauge would not read correct, but it would save $2K+.
 
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