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Question about how DPF load is computed by engine computer. I'm having a problem to which the dealer says there isn't a problem. I describe it here if you haven't seen it yet (Odd DPF loading and REGEN behavior).

My question is about which sensors go into computing the DPF load. I know the general inputs - engine speed, load, ambient conditions, exhaust temps, etc - but what I need is more specific information about which sensors are used. I'm starting to think my problem maybe bad data getting to the ECU resulting in a bad computation. Such as a failing MAP or MAF or temp sensor.

Thanks.
 
If you have the GDE tune and you can't drive at highway speeds, you can do a regen by holding it in neutral or park and rev it to 2,000+ rpms. I have had to do that twice in 70,000 miles, takes only 5 minutes or so. Don't know why FCA didn't show that message on the EVIC. My truck does a regen around every 750 miles in summer, maybe 600 miles in winter. I know that my brother's F 250PS Ford does not show a regen message either. He's very unhappy having had to have it towed to dealer a couple times, Guess the manufacturers think the owner's are too stupid to want to have info?
For why FCA doesn't have the regen message. People panic - they see a regen in progress they'll think something is wrong. I'll bet several of them, running to the dealership.

I've learned most of our trucks go thru several regens when driving. I have a Banks tuner and it tells me a regen is in progress. I drive 140 miles to and from work. I see many regens thru my drive.
 
Discussion starter · #224 ·
Question about how DPF load is computed by engine computer. I'm having a problem to which the dealer says there isn't a problem. I describe it here if you haven't seen it yet (Odd DPF loading and REGEN behavior).

My question is about which sensors go into computing the DPF load. I know the general inputs - engine speed, load, ambient conditions, exhaust temps, etc - but what I need is more specific information about which sensors are used. I'm starting to think my problem maybe bad data getting to the ECU resulting in a bad computation. Such as a failing MAP or MAF or temp sensor.

Thanks.
Perhaps this will help:

Soot Loading Strategy (Quoted from Forum Sponsor GDE)
The ECU runs two different strategies in parallel and takes the higher of the two outputs to determine the current soot loading:

Strategy 1 is a simulated value, and is calculated according to how complete the previous regeneration was, and how the engine/vehicle has been operating since then (engine speed, load, ambient conditions, exhaust temps, etc). Different OEMs design different variations of such a strategy, but for the most part the high level concepts are similar. The strategy employed by the Ram's stock tune is fairly rudimentary.

Strategy 2 is a physically measured value calculated off of measured pressure drop across the DPF, the DPF temperature, and the known flow rate of exhaust gasses.

The soot loading is used to trigger the regeneration when all the correct criteria are met.
 
Perhaps this will help:

Soot Loading Strategy (Quoted from Forum Sponsor GDE)
The ECU runs two different strategies in parallel and takes the higher of the two outputs to determine the current soot loading:

Strategy 1 is a simulated value, and is calculated according to how complete the previous regeneration was, and how the engine/vehicle has been operating since then (engine speed, load, ambient conditions, exhaust temps, etc). Different OEMs design different variations of such a strategy, but for the most part the high level concepts are similar. The strategy employed by the Ram's stock tune is fairly rudimentary.

Strategy 2 is a physically measured value calculated off of measured pressure drop across the DPF, the DPF temperature, and the known flow rate of exhaust gasses.

The soot loading is used to trigger the regeneration when all the correct criteria are met.
Okay, I've read up on this but I'm going to need more detailed information. My system is acting up again (badly) so now I'm thinking temperature, MAP, MAF, or other sensor that is feeding ECU incorrect information and screwing up the computation. Issue gets much worse as engine torque demand (production) rises.
 
Discussion starter · #226 ·
Okay, I've read up on this but I'm going to need more detailed information. My system is acting up again (badly) so now I'm thinking temperature, MAP, MAF, or other sensor that is feeding ECU incorrect information and screwing up the computation. Issue gets much worse as engine torque demand (production) rises.
Sorry that's all I have. I'll look for more information.
 
Regeneration of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

Here's some basic information concerning the self cleaning (regeneration) of the Diesel Particulate Filter:

Active = fuel is injected into the exhaust stroke strictly for the purpose of increasing exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's) in order to get to the temperature necessary to burn the soot out of the diesel particulate filter (DPF).

Your truck will regenerate (active) when the DPF soot level reaches 65%. This will likely occur every 100-300 miles. You will only see the notice on the EVIC if the soot level reaches 80-90% due to uncompleted regens.

Active self-regeneration occurs when there is not sufficient heat in the exhaust to convert all the carbon being collected in the DPF. Exhaust temperatures are raised by injecting a small amount of fuel upstream of the Diesel Particulate Filter.
The resulting chemical reaction over the DOC raises exhaust gas temperatures high enough to oxidize the carbon from the filter. This is all done without any operator intervention.

Passive = the engine is working hard enough under its own power that the EGT's are hot enough to keep the regeneration of the DPF in process, there is no extra fuel burned as it is not necessary.

Based on my observations, you will not see EGT’s hot enough for passive regeneration at unloaded highway speeds. The EGT’s are actually quite low when cruising on the highway unless you are towing a heavy load,are carrying a full payload, or driving hard.

From forum member Patty:

The truck's programming will make many repeated attempts to regenerate the DPF, from a high soot mass level of 65% down to <10% when a cycle is complete. If your trip is too short and the engine is then shut off, or the truck is put in park with the engine idling, an active regeneration process stops (at whatever soot level the DPF is at). The next drive cycle when the DPF again reaches 65% soot mass the whole process starts all over again. If you are going on a road trip the complete cycle will happen many times over...up to 65%...regen...down to <10%...over and over again.

The following information from the Owners Manual:

EVIC Messages


Your vehicle has the ability to alert you to additional
maintenance required on your vehicle or engine. Refer to
the following messages that may be displayed on your
Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC):

• Exhaust Filter XX% Full Safely Drive at Highway
Speeds to Remedy
— This message will be displayed
on the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC) if
the exhaust particulate filter reaches 80% of its maximum
storage capacity. Under conditions of exclusive
short duration and low speed driving cycles, your
diesel engine and exhaust after-treatment system may
never reach the conditions required to cleanse the filter
to remove the trapped PM. If this occurs, the “Exhaust
Filter XX% Full Safely Drive at Highway Speeds to
Remedy” message will be displayed in the EVIC. If
this message is displayed, you will hear one chime to
assist in alerting you of this condition. By simply
driving your vehicle at highway speeds for up to 20
minutes, you can remedy the condition in the particulate
filter system and allow your diesel engine and
exhaust after-treatment system to cleanse the filter to
remove the trapped PM and restore the system to
normal operating condition.

• Exhaust System — Regeneration In Process Exhaust
Filter XX% Full
— This message indicates that the
Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) is self-cleaning. Maintain
your current driving condition until regeneration
is completed.

• Exhaust System — Regeneration Completed — This
message indicates that the Diesel Particulate Filter
(DPF) self-cleaning is completed. If this message is
displayed, you will hear one chime to assist in alerting
you of this condition.

• Exhaust Service Required — See Dealer Now — This
messages indicates regeneration has been disabled due
to a system malfunction. At this point the engine
Powertrain Control Module (PCM) will register a fault
code, the instrument panel will display a MIL light.

• Exhaust Filter Full — Power Reduced See Dealer —
This message indicates the PCM has derated the
engine to limit the likelihood of permanent damage to
the after-treatment system. If this condition is not
corrected and a dealer service is not performed, extensive
exhaust after-treatment damage can occur. To
correct this condition it will be necessary to have your
vehicle serviced by your local authorized dealer.

CAUTION!

See your authorized dealer, as damage to the exhaust
system could occur soon with continued operation.

Soot Loading Strategy (Quoted from Forum Sponsor GDE)

The ECU runs two different strategies in parallel and takes the higher of the two outputs to determine the current soot loading:

Strategy 1 is a simulated value, and is calculated according to how complete the previous regeneration was, and how the engine/vehicle has been operating since then (engine speed, load, ambient conditions, exhaust temps, etc). Different OEMs design different variations of such a strategy, but for the most part the high level concepts are similar. The strategy employed by the Ram's stock tune is fairly rudimentary.

Strategy 2 is a physically measured value calculated off of measured pressure drop across the DPF, the DPF temperature, and the known flow rate of exhaust gasses.

The soot loading is used to trigger the regeneration when all the correct criteria are met.

Just as a note for some more info...

Passive regens happen when there is sufficient exhaust temperature and a favorable NO2/NOx ratio for the soot to burn. This phenomena will happen starting with exhaust temps in the 380-400°C range.
However...the stock tunes are not capable to detect that passive regeneration is taking place, and to thus slow the modeled accumulation of soot and/or decrease it if the burn rate exceeds the production rate. This is why the intervals are not improved more in the highway cycles.

...we fixed this with our tunes, in order to avoid regenerating when it's not necessary.
I just turned 118000 miles on my 2016 ecodiesel and never once have I seen any signal that my DPF was full or required an active regeneration. My career was in the heavy duty truck industry and I was very involved when the EPA required DPF's on HD trucks in 2006. Having that knowledge I have always been cognizant of the need to try to maintain high exhaust temps so when driving around town I usually have the trans in tow/haul mode to keep RPM's around the 2000 range. On one of my trips to the dealer service department I asked the service advisor if it was possible for them to check via their computer linkup the level of soot in my DPF and the answer I got was NO. Is there anyway short of purchasing a tune to check the DPF level?
 
On one of my trips to the dealer service department I asked the service advisor if it was possible for them to check via their computer linkup the level of soot in my DPF and the answer I got was NO. Is there anyway short of purchasing a tune to check the DPF level?
You can use a bluetooth OBD reader and the Torque Pro app(Android) to read the DPF% and a host of other engine and exhaust parameters. I use an OBDLink MX but there is also the MX+ if you have an iOS device. I believe for iOS there is an app called Fusion and it similar to Torque.
There is a thread for Torque Pro but the formulas for the custom piss work in Fusion. [OFFICIAL] Torque Pro App thread
 
I just turned 118000 miles on my 2016 ecodiesel and never once have I seen any signal that my DPF was full or required an active regeneration. My career was in the heavy duty truck industry and I was very involved when the EPA required DPF's on HD trucks in 2006. Having that knowledge I have always been cognizant of the need to try to maintain high exhaust temps so when driving around town I usually have the trans in tow/haul mode to keep RPM's around the 2000 range. On one of my trips to the dealer service department I asked the service advisor if it was possible for them to check via their computer linkup the level of soot in my DPF and the answer I got was NO. Is there anyway short of purchasing a tune to check the DPF level?
Only have 34,000 on my ‘17, but in may the DPF tripped the code three times in three weeks,when I had just hit about 30,000 plus. it is still under warranty and they finally had to replace the entire DPF system. I have never once seen the dash light up for a regen. I can see nothing but trouble with this system down the road. Too bad, love the truck. I actually have a lemon law attorney working on it now.
 
I have the pre EPA GDE tuned ECM but unfortunately it does not have the regen message. I use Alfaobd to track my soot level and it seems to regenerate around 80% soot level. It regenerate every 700 to 920 miles depending on how I am driving (highway or intown). I figure if I don't see anything everything is OK. No news is good news
 
one other option is to get a monitoring gauge , like the Edge CS2 or CTS2
this way you see on the screen all the time the " soot % "of the filter ,
and you will know if a regen is coming soon , also the forced regen makes it possible
for you,"" prior to starting the truck"" , to ask the truck to start a regen as soon as the
engine will reach the necessary temperature , even if you haven't reached 66% soot
in the filter .
.
when I know I'm going for a 15 minute drive , and I last turned off the engine at around
60% in the filter (DPF), my return trip would get me at around the critical 66% , on arriving at
my final destination of the day , meaning I would want to get out of the truck , but the truck
wants to start a regen , I am not going to go for an extra ride of 10-15 minutes .
that is when I ask the truck to start a regen , when I get back home I am at +/- 10% if
I ask for the forced regen .
.
And if you don't ask for a forced regen , and your regen actually starts on your way back home
the regen does not complete itself , you turn engine off , when you restart the engine the next time,
you can see the new " %" of soot on the display and go from there .
Hello Kazimodo, i have a Edge CST3 and cannot seem to find the SOOT % in the gauge section. Any idea where I could find it?
 
Hello Kazimodo, i have a Edge CST3 and cannot seem to find the SOOT % in the gauge section. Any idea where I could find it?
You double tap on the gauge that you want to assign to % Soot and select PF-REGEN-PCT (% soot)
 
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I recently got the GDE tune with the Regen notification extra. I put one of the trip odometers on Zero and when it hit 350 miles it went into Regen. Reset after the Regen went to Zero and the next time it started again at 350 miles for Regen Reset it again and then I was sent upstate for a Job and had a lot of highway miles. When it went over 380 miles I was thinking I must have missed the last Regen by stopping close to the 350. I ended up going into Regen at 460 miles.

So I was thinking that a lot of highway miles makes it go into Regen at a higher milage than the first two.
Anybody had this experience or is this normal milage before going into Regen

Thanks
 
I have the GDE hot tune. Your regen mileage will differ. Starting with the diesel itself. Then temperatures (outside). Then driving habits.
I just turned 60k miles on my 2018 ecodiesel. It's had this tune since the 600 mile mark. Basically it's whole life. Believe it or not I've literally written down every regen since 600 miles. Exactly 92 times the 80% DPF full has went on I've written down mileage for all 92 times. And the mileage between each regen. I like records. It averages between 560 and 650 miles between regens. I live in Florida and I also use distilled water in place of DEF. The truck has been to the dealer only for alignments. That's it. It's never been sick. Oil analysis was pretty amazing as well.
 
Colorworks99 I'm right there with you, tuned my '16 at 457mi and logged nearly every regen.

My regens were 700+ miles on the early GDE tunes. Since the post-AEM GDE update they've been pretty consistent at 600mi.
 
I like seeing that. GDE, when I installed it I loved it. Then went with the tyranny tune. Even better paired with the hot tune. If I were to go back, I'd still would have tuned it. I wouldn't have bothered with the single stage. I would have went for the stage 2, end of story. If I ever get a stage 2, I'll be looking at Mr. Tune in Canada. Great people up in the Great White North. 😊👍
 
This is a great thread. I read the whole thing, but one question remains.

How much fuel does a regen take to burn off the DPF? I realize it will vary according to how much it has to regen but anyone have a clue how much fuel we are using for one average regen?
 
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